Ethics 101 Maybe

[Cadmn]

I see NO ethics in lowballing NO matter the reason, it ruins the sign business for everyone. I hope your competition has a bazzilion dollars and you go broke first with your ethical self.

 

[Rick]

What I have learned is there will always be competition and there will always be someone cheaper and better...ALWAYS. The guy you put out of business will be replaced by 5 other clowns working from their garage or have the cash from the 401K to subsidize the 20 g loss a year for 10 years instead of 3.

What I find strange is that you don't find a way to be profitable on your own and if you inadvertantly put the other guy out of business then it may be the other guys fault because you had a sharper pencil, better product or better deign work.

I have 15 shops in my area and I'm sure someone will put another out of business because this area will have a hard time supporting that many sign shops. Shops go out of business all the time that have more start-up money, more talent and more business experience. Will it really matter if some clown is actually trying to purposely put you out of business when other factors that will probably do them in faster?

 

[Baz]

As much of a business man you think you are ... To me you seem to have a verry limited/narrow view of things arround you. And no way in hell would i try to help out an individual like yourself at any business. People like you are a problem the legit (you truly aren't) sign businesses are constantly having to deal with.

Without going into a long reply i will just say ... Go for it!!! Buy a shop .. Start a shop ... and work your a$$ off at undercutting and selling at cost!

Bright boy you are

 

[mystysue]

So what I’m basically getting is that most here would not shut down other business in your area selling the same product. That is so strange to me, countless times you have said the idea is to make money but on the same side you want competition. This is a wonderful site and thank you all for your help.

You know.. perhaps you need to re read your orginal post.. ..
Its not that anyone is persay sad if a competion goes out of business..
but your not talking about competing with good products

Your talking about undercutting.. charging less than cost .. or at cost.. for the main purpose of running the person out of business.. that is a whole nuther thing.

You asked if it was ethical to do that.. for the purpose of running them out ..

In my opinion.. NO.. Its playing games.. what would you gain by doing that..
So you are gonna bring in 3 people to work the shop..
Your gonna out source your design work..
and charge below cost for what you sell..
ummm Think your gonna be losing alot more than 20,000 a year..

besides losing the respect of anyone who figures out what your doing and why.....

 

[iSign]

I have no problem with it.

It's a bold business move & not everyone has the stomach for it, but you've described the exact circumstances that would allow you to pull it off (owning another business that actually reaps a tax benefit from losing money in the sign shop)

While we're being bold, here's a better plan:

See if you can learn enough here to craft a compelling resume, & attempt to secure employment, using your current financial security to allow you to include a very low salary requirment on your resume.

Now, just seduce the guy until you can steal him from his wife, enter into a gay marriage, take out a life insurance policy, stab him in the back, escape to plan an airtight alibi, collect the insurance money... and skip the whole signshop idea... since you are far more suited for cut throat greed than you are for signs.

 

[Cadmn]

well said Isign. Point stay out of the sign business as we got enough lowballers without you in it!

 

[BlueRidgeFabrication]

I have no problem with it.

It's a bold business move & not everyone has the stomach for it, but you've described the exact circumstances that would allow you to pull it off (owning another business that actually reaps a tax benefit from losing money in the sign shop)

While we're being bold, here's a better plan:

See if you can learn enough here to craft a compelling resume, & attempt to secure employment, using your current financial security to allow you to include a very low salary requirment on your resume.

Now, just seduce the guy until you can steal him from his wife, enter into a gay marriage, take out a life insurance policy, stab him in the back, escape to plan an airtight alibi, collect the insurance money... and skip the whole signshop idea... since you are far more suited for cut throat greed than you are for signs.

Definitely the best response EVER!!



​

Jessica

 

[flisk]

My question is...

Why go after a sign business?

I mean seriously, if you have enough money to operate at a 20K loss for 5 years, that's 100k alone right there that you already have in your pocket. If you have the means to flat out purchase a 3 store shopping strip, that's gotta be at least another 100K..

So you have 200K burning a hole in your pocket. Be smart with it and look into a different business all together. I mean a sign shop CAN make money, but it's not as easy as just low prices for 5 years then jacking up the price and making everyone pay the higher price. All that will do is put you out of business because people will drive the 15 miles to get their signs at the reasonable price.

Instead invest in stocks or bonds. 200k can go a long way without blowing it all on a silly adventure.

And if you really need to just get rid of it, look up me, I'm always in the market for more green.

 

[mystysue]

Now, just seduce the guy until you can steal him from his wife, enter into a gay marriage, take out a life insurance policy, stab him in the back, escape to plan an airtight alibi, collect the insurance money... and skip the whole signshop idea... since you are far more suited for cut throat greed than you are for signs.

i know his alibi can be that he was busy at the time of the murder.. spending 5 hours exporting to his plotter lol. (see the other post he made about his logo design)

Isigns. that was the greatest post yet..

 

[THATgirl]

your first sentence: Would you, if you could, put all of the other sign business in your area out of business?

No. Why do you want to do that? The talented sign shops you can learn from and will be in business a long time. A better move would be to make friends with them. The dumb ass low ballers will go out of business soon enough, and usually their work gives a few laughs along the way.

I think everyone deserves to follow their dream and start their own business, but your idea of putting all the other sign shops out of business just doesn't make any sense.

 

[slappy]

it's not ethics..... it's math

guy across the street. 5 years experience, offers digital and can probably do a layout in 30 minutes and have it printed and ready in an hour and make a well deserved profit to pay for that printer and then some and move on to the next job.

you.... no experience, 10 hours to design and cut what you call a "logo". Just imagine if it was for a customer. Hour many 10 hour jobs will it take for you to pay your lease and utilities every month, plus yourself and some growing cash to grow(meaning invest in equipment, fonts, software).... and your going to undercut the guy across the street. You have no idea what your getting into to....you'll probably charge something like $50 when he'd be charging $300. You'll never make it going that way.....


i'd just stick to your executive cleaning service business you do now and try to expand that since you mentioned it pays for itself....

best of luck to ya

 

[SoCalN8V]

two words: Tonya Harding

 

[iSign]

two words: Tonya Harding

while she truely is the ultimate bad sportsman... she was at least a contender.

This guy isn't even that. (you didn't see his 10 hour logo I guess )

 

[Flame]

Would you not have a much higher profit margin if you were the only shop in town?

Sorry, but I hope you really do have thick skin.

First off, you can learn most of this from your local community college business courses. You will NEVER 'own" the market when you're dealing with service. You may run this guy out of business in 5 years, but what IF, someone else has the same idea as you? Someone that opens up in 3 years? Now what? You have to run him out.

Here's a good scenario that ACTUALLY happened. Town has 7 accessorie shops, all do a fair share, one is larger than the other 6. Big bucks guy buys this shop and decides to do the same thing you are mentioning. Lower prices below cost so that the others with smaller pocketbooks would fail. In 1 year, one of the shops was gone. In 2 years, only 3 were left. In 4 years they were the only shop in the town of 80,000.

They jacked their prices back up to normal retail, and within months of the last shop closing, there was a smaller repair shop that opened a new showroom and suddenly.... there's 2 shops again. In 1 year, there were 5 shops and they were ALL WITHIN 2 miles of each other.

Mr. Big Bucks lost millions because he never could turn a decent profit. So now, they have a bad reputation, HAD to raise their prices, and their competition is fiercer than ever.

Best advice I can give you is to quit worrying about having competition and just run your own business. Heck, make friends with the guys if need be. Just don't take the low road. You'll just make enemies, frustrate yourself, and lose yourself a lot of money.

 

[Pro Image]

Going into business with the intent of putting a smaller competitor out of business is against the law.........Its called Anti-Trust....Ask Microsoft about it........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitrust


And if the person owning the other shop should happen by this site then they have all they need to prove intent........

 

[Techman]

It seems you have a successful business and I congratulate you on that. However, I don’t believe you completely understand how one business you own can really help another’s. Operating at a 20000 loss every year for the first three on paper and two more in actuality is not as hard endeavor as you think

you don't have a clue about my business experience. And yes,, running a business with a 20 k loss is not al that hard. Im watching a guy down the street doing that right now.

Your so full of crap. Get back to earth Back into reality. Oh wait. I have a better idea.
Just goto the track and bet on every horse. You sure to win every race.. Every one will see you at the winners window cashing in.. In the end you will still be a dummy.

 

[OADesign]

Would you, if you could, put all of the other sign business in your area out of business?

Hi all. As most of you know I am an aspiring sign maker that has not yet started my business. I live in a small town, NE that already has a sign shop that has grown fairly well in the last 5 years, Ill refer to them as SIGNS. NE is about 15 miles away from the much larger town, which has about 5-8 sign shops.

So with that back ground here is my question. I am in the position to buy a three shop strip store, in fact this is the one SIGNS started in and is directly across from their current location. I am also in a position to operate a sign shop at a loss of about $20,000, tax breaks for other income, for five years before it would become a problem. (I pray that a signage and screen print shop would be slightly more profitable that that ha ha). Anyway I don’t know this guys exact situation but I know he has had a lot of growth in the past few years and recently noticed he can now do digital printing and wraps.

As a business man I see a great opportunity to jump now that this person has likely made a large investment in equipment and undercut....

i stopped reading right here. if you have to ask whether or not it is ethical, it probably is not.

and regarding a point some one else brought up.I agree if you have money burning a hole in you wallet. there are much easier thing to invest in. with out such a hard loss. but if you must have a hand in this industry look me up here in southern California. lots of money to be made in this industry with the right capital...

 

[THATgirl]

This reminds me of about 12 years ago I worked for a sign company for a couple days. I asked the owner why she decided to go into the sign business. Her reply was her husband had a lot of money to spend and they wanted to put all the small sign businesses out of business. I left that day.
She is out of business. yay.

 

[cleanmywound]

i think you should go for it, if you have the money to lose. and if you need to spend some of that money, my 4 year old has a cricut and will wholesale design for $65 per hour.

 

[Kevin T]

Silly premise, poorly framed question, obvious lack of business knowledge.

In order to execute this type of slash and burn business model it helps to know what kind of shape your competition is in, you admitted you don't. They are established with a client base, you have nothing but a poor idea that you "think" will work. The existing shop as a going concern is certainly in better shape to take losses than you will be with nothing to start from. I have no trouble with you taking out the competition...if you can, BIG IF. I understand you are prepared to accept a 20K annual loss, why do you think it won't be 40K or 60K?

I think you better give your head a shake.

By the way you keep insisting this is a question of ethics. There is nothing ethical or unethical about this. If you can disrupt your competition and eventually surpass them that's free enterprise at it's best. An ethical dilemma would suggest a crisis of conscience. There is no ethical dilemma here.

Frankly I think you asked such a silly question to illicit exactly the responses you've seen in this thread. So enjoy your play time "pre-schooler" recess is over.

Doug that was a hilarious response well done.