How big does a job have to be to do an onsite estimate/evaluation?

[rossmosh]

I'm curious where others draw the line. My time was promised to go visit a small business because they want to throw some dimensional letters on the wall. It's going to end up being (11) 4-5" letters and (9) 3-4" letters. Not a big job by any means. I'm not even doing the install. It's about a $300-400 job depending on materials and a few other choices. I can't see how it makes any sense for me to do a site visit when a photo and the wall dimensions are all I need.

So how big of a job does it take for you to do a site visit?

 

[Drip Dry]

I'm curious where others draw the line. My time was promised to go visit a small business because they want to throw some dimensional letters on the wall. It's going to end up being (11) 4-5" letters and (9) 3-4" letters. Not a big job by any means. I'm not even doing the install. It's about a $300-400 job depending on materials and a few other choices. I can't see how it makes any sense for me to do a site visit when a photo and the wall dimensions are all I need.

So how big of a job does it take for you to do a site visit?

Depends on how far away it is. If it's around town, I would go for an estimate. If it's a half hour away, maybe I would reconsider.

Anyway, The installation with that many letters would be 3 or 400. dollars.
I think the job would easily be in the 1000.00 or more range

 

[jman]

You gotta feel the client out sometimes I have found. I've told customers 1/2 hour away I charge half hour of my time which is $40 to come out to the estimate and if the job is a go I'll deduct it from the final invoice and that has worked and other times people get offended by charging for estimates. Those are usually the ones who are bull crapping anyway. Usually if it's within a few miles from me I go no problem but when you are talking anything over 20-30 minutes away, I start to tell them I charge.

 

[visual800]

if I feel they are shopping I can usually google map the location just to make sure its a clean wall but I NEVER take thier word for it without pics

 

[Gene@mpls]

We do not leave the building. This has worked for 20 years and I see no reason to change now. If they are not interested enough to come in with pictures and talk to us... I am also not interested. I have made enough 'hard' money- time now for the easy money.

 

[chester215]

For rough estimates if we want a general view of the building we use google maps street view if it is available.
The view can be a few years old but it gives us a general idea of what the customer is talking about.

 

[Gino]

No job is too big or too small not to make a site visit. However, how you approach it, is what sets you apart.

No way, am I gonna depend on some lackey measuring something and giving me wrong information. No way, am I gonna depend on some other sign shop's survey to do the job. Most sign shops make two sets of drawings. The correct ones, which never leave their premises and the other one is off, so another sign shop will make things wrong, creating more hassles and costs to them.

You simply ask for some photographs and simple measurements and you will base your quote on that. Upon receiving the job and your required deposit, you can now go out with confidence and do your own survey. Of course, this little visit was added in when you first quoted it anyway.

 

[2B]

there are several factors that play into an onsite visit, or at least a free onsite visit.

• project amount
• travel distance
• new / repeat customer
• deposit made
• etc...

99% of the time like the others have said a picture from the customer is all that is needed to design / produce the product.

Google earth and street view are FANTASTIC TOOLS


whoever is doing the install should be the one doing the site evaluation and they can provide you with pictures of the wall

 

[signed off]

Very good topic and very timely. We too received an email asking for a price on a "Van decal" that's it, no other info supplied from a never before client so we replied that if they could send the logo or art work, make and model of the van and an idea if they want just doors lettered, windows, back etc coverage ( I went into more details in the email explaining view thru etc.) we could give an estimate. client replied "you should come here as you would know what to do with each and every van"
Ok now we might be talking a fleet so Yes it would warrant a site visit but it's an hour up, 40 min to an hour talking and 1hr back and as some mentioned your get that " are you fishing" feeling.
So I again send an email saying until we could get there if they could send the logo ( so we know if we are printing or cutting) and the makes and models of the vehicles as we have templates here we could give a ball park figure on as many as they need done.

received a photo of a van and the words "this is the van that needs the decal wrap, let me know if that is enough info"
Still up in the air as to " go and this could lead into more signage for the client" or tire kicker and only wasted 10 min in typing emails.

 

[T_K]

received a photo of a van and the words "this is the van that needs the decal wrap, let me know if that is enough info"
Still up in the air as to " go and this could lead into more signage for the client" or tire kicker and only wasted 10 min in typing emails.

We had a customer that my boss had tried to get rid of when he worked for somebody else. The customer followed him when my boss opened his own business.

Had a fleet of vehicles for his company that he wanted to redo graphics on. But they were never available to bring them by, and he was located a significant distance from our shop so we didn't really want to run back and forth to measure every vehicle individually. Finally arranged a day where I could go out and get measurements on like 90% of his vehicles and we'd discuss what he wanted to do with the graphics.

So I get out to the site. Manage to lock my keys in my car (completely my fault). Wander around the location looking for anybody, and guess what! No one was there! I called and he said someone was coming (because he was too important to actually come himself). An hour and a half later, still no one shows up except the locksmith. Finally I call him back and he explains what vehicles/equipment he wants me to measure. So I waste half my day at the stupid site survey.

And guess what? A year after this, we barely managed to get 1 vehicle done, because he couldn't make up his mind.

After this event, I'm in favor of charging for site visits, at least depending on the customer and their relationship with your business. You can always waive the fee for certain customers, but it's really hard to charge someone afterward for wasting your time. I do like the idea of subtracting it from the order - that gives the customer some incentive to do business with you instead of taking your survey and shopping it around.

 

[rossmosh]

No job is too big or too small not to make a site visit. However, how you approach it, is what sets you apart.

No way, am I gonna depend on some lackey measuring something and giving me wrong information. No way, am I gonna depend on some other sign shop's survey to do the job. Most sign shops make two sets of drawings. The correct ones, which never leave their premises and the other one is off, so another sign shop will make things wrong, creating more hassles and costs to them.

You simply ask for some photographs and simple measurements and you will base your quote on that. Upon receiving the job and your required deposit, you can now go out with confidence and do your own survey. Of course, this little visit was added in when you first quoted it anyway.

To be clear, someone calls you up and says they want some letters cut for a wall inside their business. It will amount to about $400 retail. You'd drive over there before ordering the letters to make sure the wall was measured correctly?

In this circumstance I know this customer isn't a tire kicker and I'll get the order most likely. I just don't see the point in spending an hour+ of my life to measure a wall and say "Yeah, 1/2" thick letters the color of your logo will look fine." This thread is basically to settle an in-house dispute on the matter.

 

[TammieH]

You NEVER want surprises. And we do not trust the customers to measure for us, its come back to bite us more than once, like a back lit sign that was 2' longer than we were told.

btw your price seems terribly low, about (20) 3D letters installed?

 

[Gino]

To be clear, someone calls you up and says they want some letters cut for a wall inside their business. It will amount to about $400 retail. You'd drive over there before ordering the letters to make sure the wall was measured correctly?

In this circumstance I know this customer isn't a tire kicker and I'll get the order most likely. I just don't see the point in spending an hour+ of my life to measure a wall and say "Yeah, 1/2" thick letters the color of your logo will look fine." This thread is basically to settle an in-house dispute on the matter.

This time you really narrowed it down. Now, I know it's an interior wall, so many factors don't even come into play anymore. Installation methods are limited as type of material being used. Preciseness will be upmost, but a few inches shouldn't matter. If their measurements are somewhat accurate and coincide with provided photos, perhaps I wouldn't make a visit, but I would put into writing, this is based upon their measurements and if anything goes wrong, they'll be responsible. Like some others mentioned, this job sounds like it's worth much more than $300 or $400.

A few weeks ago, a good customer, and old school friend, asked us to letter the wall behind the receptionist chair. They had told me it was 9' wide and about 7.5' tall. Well, the picture made it look a little different and I guess the perspective they took the photo was a little cock-eyed, but I quoted them based on that size according to what and how their logo appeared. Got the job, so I went there to double check things. It was about 25 minutes away one way. No big deal, I made a loop that day and good thing I did. The wall was only 7.5' wide and from anywhere in the hallway, receptionist's area or anywhere, you could only see barely 4' of wall. I hadda recalculate the sizes to fit the wall's actual live area. Had I made it based on their measurements, it never would've fit and still look good. In addition, I had added an extra $150 into the quote, cause I knew something was wrong and some e-mails back & forth were not gonna solve it. I believe I had 4 separate visits that day. Each one got tagged with an extra $125.00 to $150.00 That's almost $600 to drive around for about 2 hours and double check or confirm things. I'm doing two tomorrow on my way into work. Almost an hour away from where I live for the first one and maybe 15 minutes to the next and about 20 minutes back to the shop. I'm getting $185.00 for the one and $125.00 for the other. That's over $300 for 2 stops. Nope, I see nothing wrong with it, if you treat it like a business. If you do, they will, too. If you're afraid to charge, then don't. But it could come back to bite ya someday.

So, what is the in-house dispute ??​

 

[ams]

I'm curious where others draw the line. My time was promised to go visit a small business because they want to throw some dimensional letters on the wall. It's going to end up being (11) 4-5" letters and (9) 3-4" letters. Not a big job by any means. I'm not even doing the install. It's about a $300-400 job depending on materials and a few other choices. I can't see how it makes any sense for me to do a site visit when a photo and the wall dimensions are all I need.

So how big of a job does it take for you to do a site visit?

Generally if it's about $100 minimum I will do a site survey. Why? Because I lose about 2% of all my jobs. I do the ones others don't want and am swamped with work. I have employees that I send out to do them anyways while I work on other things.

 

[T_K]

To be clear, someone calls you up and says they want some letters cut for a wall inside their business. It will amount to about $400 retail. You'd drive over there before ordering the letters to make sure the wall was measured correctly?

In this circumstance I know this customer isn't a tire kicker and I'll get the order most likely. I just don't see the point in spending an hour+ of my life to measure a wall and say "Yeah, 1/2" thick letters the color of your logo will look fine." This thread is basically to settle an in-house dispute on the matter.

The issues I've seen rarely come from how thick the letters are, or whether their logo color is the one to use. The problems I've seen is when they take the length and width dimensions, just like Gino pointed out. I've had customers screw up measuring their vehicle door or a truck tailgate from edge to edge, which is one of the easier measurements. And dimensional letters will cost you more than a single door vinyl logo when you have to redo them.

I've quoted customers off their measurements before, but I've always said we'd follow up with our own measurements just to be sure. Even when we don't charge for the trip, it usually saves us money from not redoing anything or not making the customer mad because they made a mistake.

 

[MikePro]

producing letters for client to install? no way I would site visit, but suggesting/requesting as much info as possible (because I'm anal, always looking for chances to eff-up)

 

[player]

^ and get everything in writing and a signature and a deposit check!

 

[eahicks]

Most jobs requiring site visits, we can eliminate the trip by getting someone to send a photo. We have all done this long enough that we know what standard door widths/heights are, how to count ceiling tiles, etc. and can pretty much scale any photo to correct size to do a layout, give a quote, and usually go ahead and make the sign based on that photo. Now there are many jobs that require extensive measuring (outside wall signs, monument inserts, etc) but by the time we have gone out to get accurate measurements, we have a deposit already, so a site survey being 'worthwhile' is a moot point. By then, it is merely to cover our own butts and finalize the job.
Vehicles and small things that need signs applied to? They come to us. Period.

 

[rossmosh]

Right out of Gemini's book. 1/2" Flat Laser Cut Acrylic

5in = $11.80 * 5% for Tape x 11 U/C Letters = $136.29
4in = $10.90 * 5% for Tape x 3 U/C Letters + $10.90 * -25% for L/C * 5% for Tape x 6 L/C Letters = $85.84
Stencil Pattern = $50.00
Shipping = $28.99
Layout/Setup Logo (assuming no site visit): $75.00

So how is this job worth more than $400 when the math right there says it's worth $376.12? Site visit is a minimum of 1 hour of my time so where exactly is that $100 coming from?

 

[shoresigns]

Right out of Gemini's book. 1/2" Flat Laser Cut Acrylic

5in = $11.80 * 5% for Tape x 11 U/C Letters = $136.29
4in = $10.90 * 5% for Tape x 3 U/C Letters + $10.90 * -25% for L/C * 5% for Tape x 6 L/C Letters = $85.84
Stencil Pattern = $50.00
Shipping = $28.99
Layout/Setup Logo (assuming no site visit): $75.00

So how is this job worth more than $400 when the math right there says it's worth $376.12? Site visit is a minimum of 1 hour of my time so where exactly is that $100 coming from?

Well for one, Gemini's suggested pricing is way too low for our market. You also didn't mention lowercase letters, mounting type, paint colours, taxes or even materials. Could have easily been closer to $1000 than $400.