Question how long before fading?

[netsol]

we need to replace a 36 x 48 aluminum sign (new logo from the branding department) for a long time client

IN A PERFECT WORLD i would do it on the gerber edge, (8 year fade resistance) with cut vinyl and gerber foil ribbons EXCEPT i need 7 pantone colors (+ black)

since we don't deserve the best, i can produce it on the Mutoh vj1617h (MP31 inks) (minimum 2 years fade resistance, without lamination)

OR

send out and have it UV printed & laminated

ON TO MY QUESTIONS:

(1)assuming the 2 years is accurate, how much additional useful life does a good UV resistant laminate add to the 2 years? this is a client we have a 28 year history with (as a computer consultant, not as a sign shop)
(2) what laminate should i use for maximum life?
(3) i also assume it is not worth while considering ecosol-max inks on the old roland mounting & laminating?
(4) am i asking too many stupid questions about a 12 sq ft sign that a smarter person would just send out?

 

[MikePro]

depends on the sun exposure.
in the northern hemisphere, south facing signage will get significantly less longevity out of the color.

a UV resistant laminate helps bigtime, but reds&yellows will be the first to go.
unlaminated, you may get two years out of it, but laminated you'll usually get double+

 

[Modern Ink Signs]

It depends on a few factors

Material used
Ink used
Lamination used (if any)
Region you are in
Exposure to sun


For example my shop has the 3M MCS Certification

Printing on 3M IJ180 with 8518 (gloss) lam with our HP 830W we have 7 vertical/2 horizontal based on our region. This is one of the best/better warrantees. Do a google search for more info.


I also seem to remember that the Gerber Edge foils were 2-3 years at best. I had one for a long time until a few years ago.

 

[unclebun]

I have never used a Mutoh, but we typically see around 5 years life from prints on our Epson (and also our old Mimaki). Sometimes more, sometimes less. The prints last longer if done with cast materials (car wrap type material) because what you see more often than not is failure of calendared laminate and its adhesive.

That said, I see a lot of signs done by our competitors that fade quickly and badly. I have no idea what they are using. Maybe they are doing them unlaminated.

 

[Gino]

Not knowing which way the sign is facing, I'd say on the roland, you'll get 3 to 5 years. Most matching rigid lams give you an additional 18 months.

 

[netsol]

i would be very tempted to do it on the gerber edge, or in cut vinyl, but i would need to match 7 pantone colors.
sounds too expensive buying 7 rolls of vinyl or 7 ribbons

 

[truckgraphics]

Print it on a good calendared air release vinyl like Arlon 4600 or equivalent and use a cast overlaminate. Unless it is pointing upwards you should get at least 5 to 7 years out of it, if not more. Whether or not you can exactly match Pantone colors to the customer's satisfaction is a matter of art, providence and how many hours you are willing to spend to exactly match colors. We use a Roland for truck decals and signs. The only surface that wears out from the sun are vehicle hoods, which point upwards.

 

[MarkSnelling]

we need to replace a 36 x 48 aluminum sign (new logo from the branding department) for a long time client

IN A PERFECT WORLD i would do it on the gerber edge, (8 year fade resistance) with cut vinyl and gerber foil ribbons EXCEPT i need 7 pantone colors (+ black)

since we don't deserve the best, i can produce it on the Mutoh vj1617h (MP31 inks) (minimum 2 years fade resistance, without lamination)

OR

send out and have it UV printed & laminated

ON TO MY QUESTIONS:

(1)assuming the 2 years is accurate, how much additional useful life does a good UV resistant laminate add to the 2 years? this is a client we have a 28 year history with (as a computer consultant, not as a sign shop)
(2) what laminate should i use for maximum life?
(3) i also assume it is not worth while considering ecosol-max inks on the old roland mounting & laminating?
(4) am i asking too many stupid questions about a 12 sq ft sign that a smarter person would just send out?

As a rule of thumb, a laminate with UV inhibitors will "double the life of the ink". This is not always true as people have mentioned about signs facing south, but that's the rule. We sell 5 and even 7 year outdoor laminates, but that means the films will last for that long without yellowing, cracking, or degrading. I like the 7 year film as it is extremely stable, but I don't think it is realistic to think the inks will not fade after 4 or 5 years.

This application sounds like it is on a flat surface, so these premium calendared films will perform. I'd tell your customer to expect 4-5 years and anything beyond that will be a bonus.

 

[Stacey K]

Everything I've done so far from Signs365 before I had my printer is still looking good after 7 years, IJ35C laminated. I always laminate everything outside. Sometimes I add an edge of vinyl to avoid the laminate from lifting to add some extra time.

 

[Gino]

As a rule of thumb, a laminate with UV inhibitors will "double the life of the ink". This is not always true as people have mentioned about signs facing south, but that's the rule. We sell 5 and even 7 year outdoor laminates, but that means the films will last for that long without yellowing, cracking, or degrading. I like the 7 year film as it is extremely stable, but I don't think it is realistic to think the inks will not fade after 4 or 5 years.

This application sounds like it is on a flat surface, so these premium calendared films will perform. I'd tell your customer to expect 4-5 years and anything beyond that will be a bonus.

Not sure I'm understanding you correctly ??

If a sign will last outside for 4 years, your lam will give it til 8 years ??

 

[MarkSnelling]

Sorry if I was confusing. It isn't the "sign" as much as I was referring to the performance of the ink.

When manufacturers make the films, they can only manage what they can manage - the films they make. So they'll tell you "this film will perform for 7 years" and that means the film should not yellow or crack or degrade for 7 years outdoors.

As for laminates, the 'rule of thumb' is a quality laminate with UV inhibitors should 'double the life of the print'. You referenced a Roland printer. The EcoSol Max inks you are likely using are good for 3 years unlaminated outdoors before fading. They have an asterisk for areas like Florida and Arizona and for signs facing south. So if you were to use my 7 year laminate and 7 year film, you should expect around 6 years of overall quality because the ink is going to start fading around 6 years....the films and the inks should look good. If I were you, I'd suggest stating you expect "around 5 years of performance" just to be cautious.

also - all the 'guarantees' out there....most of them do this on a sliding scale....so if they promise it will perform for 5 years and it fails at 4, you are only really going to qualify for about 20% back if you get anything at all. I can count on one finger how many people have told me they successfully got their money back from the biggest cast supplier in the industry (that's not a blanket fact, that was just my experience).

 

[netsol]

thanks mark.

the sign we are replacing is cut vinyl on aluminum, and probably 10 years old
as i said i could do cut vinyl except i am not inclined to buy 8 colors of vinyl (7 pantone specified colors per their branding document + black)
the old logo was single color all red and black.