cdiesel
New Member
Nah, just dont compete with them. Any customer who expects to pay those prices is going to be a pain in the arse.
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How much to charge....
- Thread starter JCGraphix
- Start date
Nah, just dont compete with them. Any customer who expects to pay those prices is going to be a pain in the arse.
binki
New Member
About a week ago I had someone tell me his organization purchased a banner about that size for $2400. Yes, two thousand, four hundred US dollars. I don't know why it was so much other than they said ok when the price was given to them.
Here is a good pricing guideline established a long time ago by a blonde girl in the woods.
If they say 'OK' right away - your price is too low
If say they will be back and never come back - your price is too high
If they either try to negotiate or go away and come back and buy, - then your price is just right.
Here is a good pricing guideline established a long time ago by a blonde girl in the woods.
If they say 'OK' right away - your price is too low
If say they will be back and never come back - your price is too high
If they either try to negotiate or go away and come back and buy, - then your price is just right.
CheapVehicleWrap
New Member
ebay should be done shortly. They've been "improving" since day 1. Now that final value fees will be based upon shipping as well, should put the final nail in the coffin that should have been buried LONG ago. When the day comes, party's on me and all are invited. ebay is really pushing "has been" status for a LONG time. good riddance.
MikeSTK
Dawns Vinyl Designs
The entire pricing issue continues to overlook location / market areas. If company "A" can actively sell the same product for 25% more than your market will bear then they also should experience higher operating costs. Cars don't sell for the same thing across the country, nor does milk. Your market is yours alone.
I believe the pricing question is what inevitably keeps this market alive and kicking for smaller shops (like us). The optional ways of creating things like a banner vary greatly. Yes they are all still banners but base materials, application, printing / cutting and other variables will never allow a "set" price for such items.
As stated above if you make every sale you are doing it wrong. And let the bargain hunters can go drive someone else nuts 5 states away. My favorite is when they tell me what it will cost....hmmmph.
BUT yes there are always the ballpark price questions and more often than not a simple $7 sq/ft answer will establish if they are for real very quickly.
Break down your costs, lights, heat, equipment, materials, shipping, waste, labor, insurance, grief, rent ( we use a 40 hr work week to break those numbers down to "operating time") and anything else you can think of then triple that number for cost per square in. or ft. to determine what it costs you.
The tripling method goes like this, let's say you calculate $1.00 a sq/ft (nobody snap it's just a figure), the second $1.00 is for things unexpected or rare (repairs, upgrades etc.) and the third $1.00 goes to waste and errors. Then we take the final figure and add a profit margin.
Right or wrong that is how we determine pricing.
Hope it helps, and hope the bashing isn't so bad.
I believe the pricing question is what inevitably keeps this market alive and kicking for smaller shops (like us). The optional ways of creating things like a banner vary greatly. Yes they are all still banners but base materials, application, printing / cutting and other variables will never allow a "set" price for such items.
As stated above if you make every sale you are doing it wrong. And let the bargain hunters can go drive someone else nuts 5 states away. My favorite is when they tell me what it will cost....hmmmph.
BUT yes there are always the ballpark price questions and more often than not a simple $7 sq/ft answer will establish if they are for real very quickly.
Break down your costs, lights, heat, equipment, materials, shipping, waste, labor, insurance, grief, rent ( we use a 40 hr work week to break those numbers down to "operating time") and anything else you can think of then triple that number for cost per square in. or ft. to determine what it costs you.
The tripling method goes like this, let's say you calculate $1.00 a sq/ft (nobody snap it's just a figure), the second $1.00 is for things unexpected or rare (repairs, upgrades etc.) and the third $1.00 goes to waste and errors. Then we take the final figure and add a profit margin.
Right or wrong that is how we determine pricing.
Hope it helps, and hope the bashing isn't so bad.
CEGraphics
New Member
ok. so I just got started in this business. A friend of mine is in the business. They suggested that I charge $4.50/sq ft for cut vinyl. Setup, cutting time, and artwork are extra billed at and hourly rate. Which I've set to $35/hr. the other day I did up a quote for some signs. There will be 4 colors used. aprox 1 sq ft each color. And 2 decals. so aprox $40 in material. $45 for artwork, setup and cutting. altogether with tax, my quote was for $98. I also told him that any 2 additional would be $48.
I got the old I'll get back to you on that. Am I to high? They are not really complex, but there are 3 separate parts. One part will have three color's.
I got the old I'll get back to you on that. Am I to high? They are not really complex, but there are 3 separate parts. One part will have three color's.
iSign
New Member
what are they for? vehicle doors? $98 is an ok price, but your method is not so good.
Never use square foot pricing on cut vinyl... one guy wants a square cut, 12" x 12'... next guy wants 144 letters cut 1" x 1"... and your "cut time" is something I've never heard of... cut time is far less important then weeding time...
I'd bet the problem was not the price, but the way you quoted it.. I'll bet you sounded a little unsure of yourself, maybe stating the price with a bit of a questioning tone, since you reveal to us that you are unsure.. gotta be confident in your prices to make the sale.. and if they were for truck doors.. they should have been priced higher...
MikeSTK
Dawns Vinyl Designs
$98.00 could be low or high depending on the design. You are probably on the right track with the materials cost and add labor method.
But iSign is right as well with concerns over complicated weeding times.
Generally these issues only arise on small items, so we use a way different margin for items we know are one offs. You can pretty much tell at the beginning of the conversation if they are a small job and you will price accordingly.
We just work out displays with pricing to assist people in predetermining what they should expect to pay for smaller items. If truck doors are popular for you then maybe a few designs (or previous work ) with pricing attached would help. If the customer comes in with a figure in mind and you exceed his percieved price verbally then it is harder, and time consuming, to backtrack him into a design price to complete the sale.
I prefer the customer pointing and saying this is what I want, streamline the process and save your most precious asset, your time.
Think about it this way. Say you need shoes, you go to the store and browse through styles and price. Set up your store the same way. Imagine if the shoe store didn"t advertise a price on any item. How long until you got frustrated? Or as a non expert in footwear how can you determine what a certain pair of boots will cost? Let the customer decide and then come see you. Naturally acknowledge and greet them etc., but leave them in the drivers seat until they are ready.
Just my opinion.
But iSign is right as well with concerns over complicated weeding times.
Generally these issues only arise on small items, so we use a way different margin for items we know are one offs. You can pretty much tell at the beginning of the conversation if they are a small job and you will price accordingly.
We just work out displays with pricing to assist people in predetermining what they should expect to pay for smaller items. If truck doors are popular for you then maybe a few designs (or previous work ) with pricing attached would help. If the customer comes in with a figure in mind and you exceed his percieved price verbally then it is harder, and time consuming, to backtrack him into a design price to complete the sale.
I prefer the customer pointing and saying this is what I want, streamline the process and save your most precious asset, your time.
Think about it this way. Say you need shoes, you go to the store and browse through styles and price. Set up your store the same way. Imagine if the shoe store didn"t advertise a price on any item. How long until you got frustrated? Or as a non expert in footwear how can you determine what a certain pair of boots will cost? Let the customer decide and then come see you. Naturally acknowledge and greet them etc., but leave them in the drivers seat until they are ready.
Just my opinion.
ionsigns
New Member
DON'T. The customer is buying YOUR personal service and expertise, a friend and relationship. If they want to buy online, shake their hand and wish them the best. I don't sell products. I sell myself. I don't sell to everyone. Nobody sells every prospect. The trick is to dismiss suspects [who never become profitable customers] as friendly and professional as possible so you can take the necessary steps to engage profitable, long-term customer relationships.
Lowest Price - Quality - Service: Choose only TWO. Sometimes only get ONE.
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bob
It's better to have two hands than one glove.
The classic ballpark knee jerk price for manufactured goods is five times the actual cost. It also works pretty well with signs. It's not a law of nature but most projects come surprisingly close the 5x number.
Exempt for this rule of thumb are the pain in the ass things small and large for which you should charge a massive premium.
CEGraphics
New Member
I guess I should have explained the sign's. Three major parts. The first is 6" x 24". It's not really complicated, just a series of stars. Center star is a pain as it's a compass rose design. Second part is a large fish shape with a company name in the center. And finally the third part which is three color's. Black background 6" x 24" rectanglar, a stripe down the middle of that and finally 2 phone numbers for the business. I printed out a quote explaining what was being charged and some options. i counted the weeding time and cutting time or usage of the machine as setup/cutting. Basically about 20 minutes.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
While I agree with some of the comments and find others totally hilarious…. and then some, just shaking my head at how some people view business or the process of furnishing a final project…... it amazes me at how, or better yet…… why some people are in ANY business at all.
The really sad part is, how this industry has actually gone backwards with all of this technology, finger-tip state-of-the-art machines and greater than thou designers around today. Do you realize that back in the 60’s, 70’s and well into the ‘90’s we were getting $175 for a 3’ x 4’ banner ?? That’s mostly BC [before computers] for the majority of shops. With four or five guys hand-painting, another one screen printing while another two or three worked on electric signs and one or two shocard writers and then another one or two lettering trucks… you had a ton of work going out. Y’all make fun of the hand-painters and those good ol' days, but at least we got paid what we were worth. Today, you've got a gazillion times the overhead and you're trying to sell this stuff for nothing and still beat out the other guy. Your business plan or strategies are all messed up..... big time !!
Now, you want to figure out how to sell something where all one has to do is figure out what they’ve spent for materials, add in your overhead [if any], calculate what you want to get for your time, add in any other factors like profit, taxes and any other chit factors and presto…. you have it.
Why worry if you’re getting top buck or leaving money on the table ?? As long as you’re making all your payments at the end of the week/month and you still have leftovers for groceries and fun….. who cares what Joe Jabip is making on the other side of the country ??
The really sad part is, how this industry has actually gone backwards with all of this technology, finger-tip state-of-the-art machines and greater than thou designers around today. Do you realize that back in the 60’s, 70’s and well into the ‘90’s we were getting $175 for a 3’ x 4’ banner ?? That’s mostly BC [before computers] for the majority of shops. With four or five guys hand-painting, another one screen printing while another two or three worked on electric signs and one or two shocard writers and then another one or two lettering trucks… you had a ton of work going out. Y’all make fun of the hand-painters and those good ol' days, but at least we got paid what we were worth. Today, you've got a gazillion times the overhead and you're trying to sell this stuff for nothing and still beat out the other guy. Your business plan or strategies are all messed up..... big time !!
Now, you want to figure out how to sell something where all one has to do is figure out what they’ve spent for materials, add in your overhead [if any], calculate what you want to get for your time, add in any other factors like profit, taxes and any other chit factors and presto…. you have it.
Why worry if you’re getting top buck or leaving money on the table ?? As long as you’re making all your payments at the end of the week/month and you still have leftovers for groceries and fun….. who cares what Joe Jabip is making on the other side of the country ??
Pat Whatley
New Member
So Gino, I take it you're still charging $175 for a 3' x 4' banner. Wouldn't want to be part of "the problem" or anything, would you?
Gino
Premium Subscriber
When wholesaling, it depends on the material we’re using and sometimes who it is we’re wholesaling to….. but for the most part, our retail banners are higher. We’re generally in the range of $16 per square for 11oz to 14oz. We just printed a 2’ x 10’ one-sided banner on Friday for a local company. Got $397. In fact, that’s the third one they got in the last few months.
So, not to be part of the problem, but why is it…. most people will charge $55 to $75 for a set/pair of magnetics, but use the exact same copy, size and layout for lettering two doors direct and want $175 and they have less invested ?? Don’t get me wrong, that’s not what we get, but I’ve seen this price scale all over the threads here.
Now, I’m not saying this is right or wrong, I would just like to understand the logic behind others.
So, not to be part of the problem, but why is it…. most people will charge $55 to $75 for a set/pair of magnetics, but use the exact same copy, size and layout for lettering two doors direct and want $175 and they have less invested ?? Don’t get me wrong, that’s not what we get, but I’ve seen this price scale all over the threads here.
Now, I’m not saying this is right or wrong, I would just like to understand the logic behind others.
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Fanaticus
New Member
I just saw a simple lettering job on a trailer go for $3800. It couldn't have taken more than a day for one guy to do, but the shop that did it is the only "real" shop in the area with a building all it's own and can take in larger vehicles. So he has a lot more overhead than others around here.... but also has the most "professional" presence. The other "big guy" around here does his out of a barn.
You can tell the difference between who did what work as you drive around town. The guy doing it out of the barn likes to use black borders on red text and tries too hard to have an 'edge' to his work. Flames and stuff. Bad layouts. Hard to read stuff.
The big pro has a decent designer, probably a year or two out of school. Easy to read clean layouts. Simple colors. It doesn't scream "hey! look at me!" then gore your eyes out. A lot of his work has fonts from Sign DNA, if not all of his work. All the logo work he's done that I've seen are, in fact, sign DNA fonts.
I think $3800 is a lot for the trailer, but, you do get what you pay for.
Time for me to go for a bike ride.
You can tell the difference between who did what work as you drive around town. The guy doing it out of the barn likes to use black borders on red text and tries too hard to have an 'edge' to his work. Flames and stuff. Bad layouts. Hard to read stuff.
The big pro has a decent designer, probably a year or two out of school. Easy to read clean layouts. Simple colors. It doesn't scream "hey! look at me!" then gore your eyes out. A lot of his work has fonts from Sign DNA, if not all of his work. All the logo work he's done that I've seen are, in fact, sign DNA fonts.
I think $3800 is a lot for the trailer, but, you do get what you pay for.
Time for me to go for a bike ride.
iSign
New Member
well, I think the major flaw in your logic is what you believe... if you believe "most people' charge that little for a pair of magnetics...
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...and then you choose to believe the same people are the ones charging $175 for truck doors...
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well, the only point in seeking to justify that logic is if your assumptions are correct, and frankly, I don't know if they are... I can only speak for myself however, and I charge $175 for both scenarios.. often quite a bit more... sometimes less...
..and I have a justification for not being higher on the magnetics where I have ($5) more invested... I get to stop making mags when the phone rings, stop for lunch, stop for walk in clients, stop for better paying jobs./.. hell, if all those other distractions add up to needing to, I can even stop for the weekend, halfway through making the magnets... so, I think the luxury of making a sign in my shop is something not to be overlooked, VS. the liability of installing signs on someone's truck, who is waiting for that.. and if someone messes up a letter, or a logo... everything stops, & the replacement graphics have to be produced on the spot, right then, even if it means slowing down another high paying job, to get that client back on the road in his vehicle...
saktrnch
New Member
HA, was just thinking the same thing yesterday.
Edserv
New Member
Glad to see so many responses to this thread. Pricing is a sensitive issue, one I hate to deal with. When we started, we tried to "optimize" for "vinyl banners" in Google. Got as high as number two (I think we're now 10 or 11,) but ever since banner pricing online got crazy, we stopped trying to rank for "vinyl banners." In Hawaii, we normally try to charge $8 per foot (give or take based on quantity and artwork supplied.) For our online orders, we go lower (with print-ready artwork) to about 5-7 per foot. Sure, we are always willing to negotiate, and if the client needs their product yesterday, we charge a premium.
Thanks for your posts, glad I'm not the only one with price issues!
Lets Go Banners
Thanks for your posts, glad I'm not the only one with price issues!
Lets Go Banners
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