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It would have been better to just make a new sign

gnubler

Active Member
Got sucked up with a doozy, wondering how others would have handled this.

Contacted by a property management company to update an outdoor directory sign for a commercial building. Remove a few tenant names, install a new one. I checked out the sign - each tenant "plaque" was a strip of cut vinyl 40" wide with black cut vinyl lettering on top, all applied to a painted sheet of signboard, both sides. At the time I didn't see any red flags so I took on the job.

Fellers listed that color in stock by the yard, but when I finally went to order it was 50yd rolls only from manufacturer. Luckily I found 5 yards from another supplier which was enough for the job. Day of install I started working on it onsite. The black lettering didn't want to come off easily, pulling up chunks of the vinyl below. A past tenant had already gouged their plaques trying to remove their name, so I was planning to just pull all the strips off and lay all new vinyl down. Two hours of this on a ladder out in the sun was enough. Called in my installer to pull the panel down and finish working on it in the shop. All together I probably spent 7-8 hours total between cutting vinyl, removal/cleanup, three trips to the site, and wondering the reason why the shop before me made a directory that's extremely difficult to update. I was too far into the job to stop and consider a Plan B. It should have been designed with removable plaques that can easily be re-lettered.

For those more experienced, if you had encountered a directory like this how would you have approached it? Give the customer the option of paying for all the labor of what it took to update, or propose a brand new panel with removable plaques that will save a ton of time and money in the long run? The building has at least 20 tenants and I don't want to go through this again for the next batch of turnover.
 

Stacey K

I like making signs
You should tell him that the sign cannot be updated anymore, this was the last time and then give him an estimate for a new one, even though you realize that it could be some time before he needs to change it out again but you just want to be upfront and honest with him so he can plan ahead. Make it sound like you did him a favor by changing it out one last time...which isn't a lie.

Vinyl never seems to come off paint very well for me. It's too late now so it's hindsight. One option would have been to stop after the first couple and just tell him it will be cheaper to make a new one. That is the reason for an estimate, you just estimated that it would go well, but it didn't.
 

Johnny Best

Active Member
Do the job as good as I could and reinstall everything. Make suggestions for new sign as people mentioned. Next time they want a name change remember how long it took you and price accordingly. Move on after completing a job. Learn from it so you don't keep repeating your mistakes. You sound like you fight yourself on every job.
 

RabidOne

New Member
We don't do any of that stuff outside onsite. We quote it all as remove, take it back to the shop, install the vinyl here and then reinstall.
Luckily its a small town so nothing is more than 30 minutes away.
 

WhiskeyDreamer

Professional Snow Ninja
I would have made aluminum panels with the lettering on it attached them to the sign. most of the time, those places don't care what the sign looks like and will keep shopping around to different signs shops every time they need an update. i have had a few clients in the past that took my suggestion to update the entire sign and then yes, we've created it so that replacements in the future are super easy.
 

gnubler

Active Member
Let the competition do the hard jobs. :roflmao:

Apparently I am the competition and clearly this is a conspiracy against me. Thanks for all the input. I'm going to invoice all the labor and tell the customer it's not worth doing again...will quote a new sign if it comes back to me. I'm calling this one "The Yugo". Cheap to make, but the upkeep and repairs end up costing waaaay more than the original price.

20220713_152629.jpg
 

WhiskeyDreamer

Professional Snow Ninja
I'm calling this one "The Yugo". Cheap to make, but the upkeep and repairs end up costing waaaay more than the original price.
EXACTLY! ive change plenty of client's minds simply be explaining that they'll put a little more money out now, but upkeep down the road will be cheaper and look nicer. of course there's always some clients that you just can't sway and they want cheap.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
You simply tell them ahead of time, this can no longer be done. We must change the whole thing to a new color and insert new and old names alike on a predetermined color slat.

goober track.jpg
 

Scotchbrite

No comment
I don't think you can ever count on removing vinyl lettering from the top of other vinyl. Maybe when it's close to new, but once that adhesive has had time to cure, it's going to pull up the vinyl under it.

I would do as others and suggest other options to the sign owner. Unfortunately too many shops only think of the initial project and not future changes. Happens a lot when dealing with service work too, let alone face and copy changes.
 

gnubler

Active Member
I don't think you can ever count on removing vinyl lettering from the top of other vinyl. Maybe when it's close to new, but once that adhesive has had time to cure, it's going to pull up the vinyl under it.

I wasn't counting on being able to remove the lettering, but didn't think removing the strips would be such a PITA. Here's what was left after a former tenant went ballistic on removing their name.

20220629_165619.jpg
 

gnubler

Active Member
It has #15 slats for customers but only #5 leasing.

Yeah, I haven't figured that out. I did the lobby directory and filled it up with 20 tenants. No idea why they don't want to be listed on the outside directory, and after this job I'm totally fine with that.
 

Johnny Best

Active Member
You know what’s funny. Some sign person came on here a couple of years ago asking help on making directory panels, and he had no way to paint them.
So some smart member on here gave him the idea of applying vinyl and then cut vinyl on top.
 

Boudica

Back to "educational purposes"
You know what’s funny. Some sign person came on here a couple of years ago asking help on making directory panels, and he had no way to paint them.
So some smart member on here gave him the idea of applying vinyl and then cut vinyl on top.
The universe has completed another circle. Ironically close to the self proclaimed center of the universe. In North Idaho... How far away are you from Wallace gnubler?
 

Jean Shimp

New Member
Those directory signs with multiple tenants can be a challenge to make. We have done several types using individual aluminum composite panels or acrylic. We put threaded inserts in the substrate and then screws to attach each panel to the substrate. Extra panels are cut so that when a tenant changes we letter the panel in the shop and go to the site and swap out the old panel. It's time consuming to put in all the inserts and make sure the panels all align correctly. Also need to allow for expansion and contraction of the panels so the holes need to be more of a slot than a round hole. After a few years the ACM will fade, unless of course you use white, but still the directory looks aged. I would like to find a better alternative for making these signs that is easy to change and looks good for a long time.
 
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