Poconopete
New Member
If your business model works for you that's great. The rest of us will just have to try to live on the scraps you leave behind.
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Low pricing.
- Thread starter Mosh
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Craig Sjoquist
New Member
guess the way I read that was
a new sign shop thinks yea I can do that ... but over time you under cut the new sign shop ..of course out of business before long
You then bring prices up again to a good profit shrude but I see it works for you
but like many of us the big city is our hunting grounds and because there is no requirement to be a sign shop other then money now days .. last 25 years the industry has seen thousands of I can do that cheaper shops... cause $400 or a $1000 is to much to pay for a truck door ad ..fair prices before 1985 for really good design / layout to a super design / layout be it one color or 10
Now I for one enjoyed doing my best trying for that $400 truck doors
Now I rarely bother except make sure my friends get a great looking design / layout and are willing to pay some reasonable amount
Why cause ya can get 2 doors done for $50 .. even printed full color ...
truck doors have alot more value then $50 ... advertising value alone is worth more then $400 even in today's market ... a good design / layout will draw eyes a great deal more then a crispy clean poor design / layout ... also a great design / layout will generate more sales .... seen proved day after day
that's the real difference in a sign shop that stamps out signs for low cost ..and a sign shop that does advertising ..... but advertising is what we sell and to produce that it costs mostly labor
a new sign shop thinks yea I can do that ... but over time you under cut the new sign shop ..of course out of business before long
You then bring prices up again to a good profit shrude but I see it works for you
but like many of us the big city is our hunting grounds and because there is no requirement to be a sign shop other then money now days .. last 25 years the industry has seen thousands of I can do that cheaper shops... cause $400 or a $1000 is to much to pay for a truck door ad ..fair prices before 1985 for really good design / layout to a super design / layout be it one color or 10
Now I for one enjoyed doing my best trying for that $400 truck doors
Now I rarely bother except make sure my friends get a great looking design / layout and are willing to pay some reasonable amount
Why cause ya can get 2 doors done for $50 .. even printed full color ...
truck doors have alot more value then $50 ... advertising value alone is worth more then $400 even in today's market ... a good design / layout will draw eyes a great deal more then a crispy clean poor design / layout ... also a great design / layout will generate more sales .... seen proved day after day
that's the real difference in a sign shop that stamps out signs for low cost ..and a sign shop that does advertising ..... but advertising is what we sell and to produce that it costs mostly labor
cgsigns_jamie
New Member
a.f.i.p.m.o.
Master's Touch
New Member
...............
okay lemme get this straight:
you'd rather do 13-14 trucks to make a grand @ 75 each rather than 250 a truck and do JUST FOUR???
Welp, ya can work hard, or smart, I guess.....
Master's Touch
New Member
one more thing....Mosh I for one would love to see some samples of your work, in particular the 75 dollar truck lettering. Maybe that'll shed some light on things.
Charlie J
New Member
charge more to work less so you can spend more time with them.
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mikefine
New Member
I for one, want to hear more what you have to say! I am intrigued. Under-cutting markets, blowing away competition, using lost leaders to generate more business. As business people, why would you be so outraged by these concepts and treating them so negatively?
And isn't that how it's done at the corporate level? Walmart buries their competition. So does McDonald's. So does many of our sign suppliers. So does many of the signs101 vendors, which I have successfully used to undercut some of my markets.
I like how you protect your geographic area from any potential competition. That's ruthless..Mosh.
Love it or hate it...that's being a businessman.
I am sorry you are not getting a better reception.
And isn't that how it's done at the corporate level? Walmart buries their competition. So does McDonald's. So does many of our sign suppliers. So does many of the signs101 vendors, which I have successfully used to undercut some of my markets.
I like how you protect your geographic area from any potential competition. That's ruthless..Mosh.
Love it or hate it...that's being a businessman.
I am sorry you are not getting a better reception.
grafixemporium
New Member
This thread is ridiculous.
SurfaceSigns
New Member
Totally agree.
Sadly, I have to laugh at the fact that while Mosh has stuck to his guns and remained on topic without slinging mud, the majority of responders have simply resorted to name calling instead of backing their thinking up or just ignoring the thread. What are you guys, 5?
What's funnier to me is that while you all have no problem charging a customer 500 or 1000% mark up on the vinyl you sell, most of you probably do as much as you can to get the lowest price from your own vendors, and complain if they raise the prices even a few percent. Do as I say, not as I do seems to be the mantra. I have no doubt that the folks at 3M, Orocal, Roland, etc. would love to have the margins we have.
While I'm not totally clear on Mosh's overall points, as some seem contradictory, I think what he is saying is that there are segments of the market that are High End (i.e. the stuff Uncle Dan produces) and should be charged accordingly, and others, such as vehicle graphics, that are a more mainstream, where the most efficient shops can feast on their competition with lower prices while maintaining decent margins. The bottom line is that most small businesses are run extremely inefficiently, resulting in a higher operating cost that requires a higher price to the customer.
Farmboy
New Member
http://adkinssigns.com/default.aspx
This is the site he has listed in his profile.
This is the site he has listed in his profile.
TheSnowman
New Member
$3 sq. ft. for banners. Good glory. This truly is the most annoying thread of the month.
gabagoo
New Member
I want to buy vinyl where you get it!!!!! $10.00 in vinyl yields $400? Maybe if your cutting 500 1/4" letters. Wow!!! I have been getting rooked all these years
Just Another Sign Guy
New Member
why are we hard on noobies? because they deserve it.
why do new posters get picked on? because they post stoopid sh!t
i absolutely just love all of these "professionally trained incredibly educated businessmen" that have convinced themselves that their business model can be the same as or similar to that of walmart or any other business that simply does not relate.
we are an industry that is not selling items off of the shelf that we can buy in the bazillions of units make money off of buying in mass quantity/dividing among multiple stores/etc etc, we are selling a custom product (and the majority of shops that custom product is a one off).
this thinking would be absolutely silly if walmart was to adopt a business model selling their products that are bought in bulk and inventoried as one off custom products...everyone would scratch their head and say "what in the world is this fool thinking" but when the scenario is flipped someone convinces themselves that they are a business genius and have somehow discovered the proverbial achilles heel that will put all of the competition out of business and they will then be the one survivor (and then of course they will be around for the big custom jobs that now they want to charge a market price as was earlier stated).
from a business perspective what really makes me shake my head on this one is the principle that your competition is the threat (or why would you have to run them out of your town?) in the majority of the shops that i have been hired to come in as a consultant and identify where they are failing or how they can improve and then help to develop a plan of action that will combat and hopefully overcome these areas that need improvement, i CAN NOT think of one shop who's problem has been their competition NOT ONE. to put it bluntly we are our worst enemies...in the majority of the cases that i have come into the shop owner has either followed, developed, or evolved into following practices that simply are flawed.
when you can look at your own practices and procedures with an open mind and accept that there are people there to help you and that they simply do not want to see you fail you can adopt change that will have positive influence on your business (sometimes unfortunately that positive change is to realize and accept that your model is flawed and simply will not work).
if you are so stuck on your plan and that no one has anything to offer that will benefit you, that no one has more experience or experiences different than yours that have generated highly successful results, that it is impossible for anyone to know more than you or to have specialized knowledge that has proven results...well unfortunately we can usually predict the final outcome and it is that you will follow the same path that you are on...
but lucky for "mosh"...his plan is 'rockin' and there is no room for improvement and we can all learn from his positive, highly effective plan that throws all common sense out the window.
with that 'Please' let's hear more...because i am sure that we are going to hear it if we want to or not.
why do new posters get picked on? because they post stoopid sh!t
i absolutely just love all of these "professionally trained incredibly educated businessmen" that have convinced themselves that their business model can be the same as or similar to that of walmart or any other business that simply does not relate.
we are an industry that is not selling items off of the shelf that we can buy in the bazillions of units make money off of buying in mass quantity/dividing among multiple stores/etc etc, we are selling a custom product (and the majority of shops that custom product is a one off).
this thinking would be absolutely silly if walmart was to adopt a business model selling their products that are bought in bulk and inventoried as one off custom products...everyone would scratch their head and say "what in the world is this fool thinking" but when the scenario is flipped someone convinces themselves that they are a business genius and have somehow discovered the proverbial achilles heel that will put all of the competition out of business and they will then be the one survivor (and then of course they will be around for the big custom jobs that now they want to charge a market price as was earlier stated).
from a business perspective what really makes me shake my head on this one is the principle that your competition is the threat (or why would you have to run them out of your town?) in the majority of the shops that i have been hired to come in as a consultant and identify where they are failing or how they can improve and then help to develop a plan of action that will combat and hopefully overcome these areas that need improvement, i CAN NOT think of one shop who's problem has been their competition NOT ONE. to put it bluntly we are our worst enemies...in the majority of the cases that i have come into the shop owner has either followed, developed, or evolved into following practices that simply are flawed.
when you can look at your own practices and procedures with an open mind and accept that there are people there to help you and that they simply do not want to see you fail you can adopt change that will have positive influence on your business (sometimes unfortunately that positive change is to realize and accept that your model is flawed and simply will not work).
if you are so stuck on your plan and that no one has anything to offer that will benefit you, that no one has more experience or experiences different than yours that have generated highly successful results, that it is impossible for anyone to know more than you or to have specialized knowledge that has proven results...well unfortunately we can usually predict the final outcome and it is that you will follow the same path that you are on...
but lucky for "mosh"...his plan is 'rockin' and there is no room for improvement and we can all learn from his positive, highly effective plan that throws all common sense out the window.
with that 'Please' let's hear more...because i am sure that we are going to hear it if we want to or not.
TheSnowman
New Member
Dan for president!
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