Most unusual vinyl application question

[paul luszcz]

I have a good friend who does some pretty wild (creative?) work for a prominent Boston architectural firm. Our most unusual projects have been for him.

I have to give him a price to paint and apply lettering to the 14' diameter domes as shown in the attached illustration. My shop is in a boatyard, which just so happens to have a 60' long by 40' wide spray booth (think 50' yachts) and they will paint the domes.

How would you apply the lettering? How would you even calculate the distortion in three dimensions?

We have a hand lettering sign painter who could probably do it, but there are five of them and I think it would take days, of which he would hate every minute.

So that means vinyl. How would you do it?

 

[StopSignGraphics]

It's hard to tell from the pic about the curve of the dome, however I think you maybe able do it with vinyl.

You would have to draw a base line around the bottom of the interior and have to install each letter individually but I think it could be done.

~Chris

 

[paul luszcz]

The domes are hemispheres, so the diameter is 14', the height is 7'. The lettering looks to be about 30" high?

Would you figure the circumference of the dome (~44') to set up the lettering and then apply them one at a time? Would you use the circumference at the top of the letter, which would be much less than at the bottom?

My brain hurts.

 

[PRS Bryan]

I would build a scale model.

Take a hollow ball, maybe a tennis ball, and cut out the area of the text. Take the resulting "ring" and cut it open so that it would lay flat. That will give you the shape then scale the size up to the 14' diameter. I would then make a full size template out of some type of semi-rigid paper and check your dimensions. Once you have a full size template, create the shape in the graphics program of your choice. Finally cut the vinyl to shape and apply.

I am not suggesting it would be quick or easy, there would be significant trial and error, but I suspect it could be done.

Another option would be to build the sphere in a 3D program and delete the unnecessary geometry, then try to flatten it out to get the proper shape.

I would think a pure mathematical approach would my head explode in short order. Not to mention any error would be difficult to track down.

Just throwing out ideas.

 

[AnthonyRalano]

I would make a 3d model with the correct dimensions. Export the uvw map and edit and then reimport to get your result.

 

[GAC05]

I think you need to do a site survey.
Measure the diameter at the baseline of where the text will go, then get the diameter at the top of the proposed text.
Convert the diameters to circumference and use those measurements to layout a template.
Should be easy to place and distort the letters to fit.

wayne k
guam usa

 

[GAC05]

View attachment 99054
I would make a 3d model with the correct dimensions. Export the uvw map and edit and then reimport to get your result.

This would be the cool way to do it but too much work I think.
You'd pretty much need a profile curve of the actual shape of dome to do an accurate revolve or something.

wayne k
guam usa

 

[SignManiac]

r = radius
V = volume
A = surface area
C = circumference
π = pi = 3.14159
√ = square root

 

[JLD984]

Measure the circumference of the bottom and the circumference of the top. Then measure the distance between each (height).

Make a rectangle in Illustrator with the width being the measurement of the bottom circumference and the height being the distance between the top and bottom circumference.

Type your text in (with the required space around it) then combine it with the rectangle so it's all one object.

Make a line at the top which is the same length as the top circumference and then another at the bottom which is the same length as the bottom circumference (make sure they're the same distance apart as the height). Lock these two lines so they stay there as a guide.

Then it's a matter of selecting the combined object and playing around with the arc tool until the four corners of the rectangle match the four points of the guides you made. This part can be a bit time consuming but will save you so much time in the long run.

 

[iSign]

there's no arc needed, it's more of a tapering of each letter that would spread around whatever distortion is required, to evenly occur in each letter, with no more distortion than needed in any one letter.

I don't think distorting the line of copy as a whole would ever work, because this idea of tapering to allow for shorter line length (circumference) at top, vs. at baseline wouldn't spread out the distortion evenly...

my first observation is the distorted height of the lettering in the presentation drawing. I would guess that is condensed because with a minimum line length, someone with that "bigger is better" mentality probably came up with that dumb (& ugly) idea... and just needs to be talked out of it..

"needs" I say? ...why's that? you ask... well, even if looking better, and being more legible wasn't enough, I think the less height the better, with regard to possible distortion...

then with normal type instead of condensed type, perhaps you could just leave the type undistorted, set the line length to the circumference of the sphere at the location of the top of the copy, and cut copy without any distortion (or a smaller segment for on-site experimentation & client approval)

On installing the full line of copy, I'd use a top hinge, tape the entire line of copy, with the paper hanging straight down (because it's won't be able to touch the inner globe surface anywhere else) and then I would cut between each letter, and apply normally. My guess is that it will look fine (and the shorter segment test would have verified that)

 

[iSign]

..and if it didn't look fine, I'd calculate the % of increase from the top circumference, to the bottom one, (I'd guess it's only 15% max) then with .ai's distort tool, I'd distort each letter with that same 15% increased baseline width, (I only know how to do it visually, but even if entering numerical values isn't an option, I'd do a few, measure after completion, and I believe the distort tool holds the values of the last use) then kern until letters touch at the base, resize to correct circumference (& make necessary adjustments because after kerning changes line length & resizing changes the cap height... knowing what exact circumference is correct will change as well)

 

[JLD984]

Why focus on individual letters when you can do it all at once? Distorting individual letters by a certain percentage or value obviously won't work because they're all different widths.

 

[Pat Whatley]

Don't overthink it. Figure the diameter where the tops of the letters will be. Cut your lettering to fit that length. Apply transfer tape. Trim backing and tape right to the top of the letters. When you go to install tape the lettering in place at the top all the way around the dome. Trim between each letter. Peel off backing, squeegee straight down. The lettering will flow straight down.

Yes, your letter spacing will be slightly wider at the bottom but it will hardly be noticeable, especially with the curve, especially at the massive size. The distortion the curve creates is going to make it look...well....distorted, anyway.

I know, I know, people are rolling their eyes and thinking it sounds ridiculous, but it will work.

If you try to distort each letter individually or cut them in an arc or work out some complex geometry you run into the problem that your baseline is a different width than your top line you either have to cut the letters individually or you have to cut them in arcs, in sections, then cut the letters into individual pieces anyway when you install them. There are 1000 ways to screw that up. Go simple, go easy, nobody will ever know the difference.

Since I know you don't believe that go to whatever passes for Walmart down there, but a giant $2 popcorn bowl, and give it a shot.

 

[JLD984]

Yes that is easy, but no, people will notice. People get signwriters to do their work for a reason, to make things look professional and that certainly won't.

The whole idea of the curve is because the dome is curved the other way, if it's done correctly it will appear as close as possible to how it would on a flat surface. This would obviously require cutting some of the way up between letters but at least the spacing will look normal.

 

[Billct2]

I like the idea of a 3D computer model. Since I don't have experience with those programs I would give it to my engineering buddy who designs parts for manufacturing.
He would create the shape add the lettering and his program does the distortion. Then flatten the letters and export for cutting. It gives me a headache thinking about it, but he does this kind of stuff all the time.