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Need Help Network chip Roland VP540

Krister Koppari

New Member
Hi,

My friend have a broken Roland VP540 with the very usually "no connection" problem. We have tried all the other fixes but nothing helped.

So I ordered a new Realtek network chip. I have now replaced the old one with the new chip.
The leds on the network port does not lit up or blink/flash after I have replaced the chip.
They do a "double blink" when I switch on the power but after that they wont blink or stay lit.

Is there some kind of setting that I need to do to get the new chip working?
I have downloaded the service manual and will go through it later this week.

But any help would be nice.

Cheers
Krister
 

netsol

Active Member
Krister
I would guess the chip was damaged in installation, heat damaged, or a foil,was damaged. I will look later at a service manual. Is it a multilayer board, or just foils front & back? Do you have proper desoldering equipment? Have you ever done this before? did you scrub the board with flux stripper or alcohol after installing? Is it possible the rj45 connector was bad? Not the chip?

The realtek chips are a frequent failure. It is not the easiest thing to change if you are not experienced. Is the symptom exactly the same as you had before changing the chip?
 

Krister Koppari

New Member
Krister
I would guess the chip was damaged in installation, heat damaged, or a foil,was damaged. I will look later at a service manual. Is it a multilayer board, or just foils front & back? Do you have proper desoldering equipment? Have you ever done this before? did you scrub the board with flux stripper or alcohol after installing? Is it possible the rj45 connector was bad? Not the chip?

The realtek chips are a frequent failure. It is not the easiest thing to change if you are not experienced. Is the symptom exactly the same as you had before changing the chip?

Hi,

Thank you for the quick reply.

Yes I have done similiar work before.
I do have the correct tools for this job.
My company works with electronic repairs.
I have over 30 years of experience with working with electronics. My father and grand father both had electronic workshops.
Yes I know this does not say anything about my skills but I do this for a living and has benen doing it since 2003, so I can't be that bad at it.

Everytime I do a job for a friend or a customer I usually take twice the time to do the job then when I do it for myself but only charge for half the time it took just to be sure that I really did the best I can.

I read somewhere that there is a "service menu" where you can do some other network settings that is not open in the user menu.
 

balstestrat

Problem Solver
With quick look this was the only thing about network in service that I saw.

Screenshot 2021-01-04 181809.png


This as well.

Screenshot 2021-01-04 182317.png
Screenshot 2021-01-04 182327.png
 
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Krister Koppari

New Member
Thank you for your reply!
I will probably go there tomorrow now that I have something to try.

The old chip worked when we heated the board to about 40 Celsius.


Is there someone here that has sucessfully replaced the Realtek network chip and know that it should work without any other adjustments or settings, well then I know that I have done something wrong when I replaced the chip.
I do have a second chip since I ordered two chips just in case something would go wrong or if I would find another Roland with the same problem.......
 

netsol

Active Member
krister,
sounds like you are more than qualified
since it worked when you heated it,i will assume the problem was a "feed through" that went intermittent (a plated hole that connects multiple layers of the board ) and a connection that restored when the board flexed.

i have not been back to the shop, since i replied to you. i would think this might just be a matter of plain old dc voltage troubleshooting. looking at an rj45 connector, i was taught to remember ":1326" one data pair is between pins 1 &3, the other is between pin 2 & 6. the others are all ground (or poe). i have been doing this too long, i forget which ones light the led,

when i go to the shop in the am i will see if i can take a cover off my sc545-ex, i believe the network circuit is similar enough for our purposes. we have a pile of service manuals, but i don't think i have yours. if i do, i will pm you . a picture and a schematic would probably help us both at this point

not to overlook the obvious, did you resolder the rj45 connector?
 

Krister Koppari

New Member
krister,
sounds like you are more than qualified
since it worked when you heated it,i will assume the problem was a "feed through" that went intermittent (a plated hole that connects multiple layers of the board ) and a connection that restored when the board flexed.

i have not been back to the shop, since i replied to you. i would think this might just be a matter of plain old dc voltage troubleshooting. looking at an rj45 connector, i was taught to remember ":1326" one data pair is between pins 1 &3, the other is between pin 2 & 6. the others are all ground (or poe). i have been doing this too long, i forget which ones light the led,

when i go to the shop in the am i will see if i can take a cover off my sc545-ex, i believe the network circuit is similar enough for our purposes. we have a pile of service manuals, but i don't think i have yours. if i do, i will pm you . a picture and a schematic would probably help us both at this point

not to overlook the obvious, did you resolder the rj45 connector?

well, the last thing I tried before I replaced the Realtek chip was a reflow of the entire mainboard.
Did not make any difference either.
There has been a problem with temperature on this machine for a long time.
The company that had the machine before my friend had a heatfan blowing warm air from underneath all the time.
They had around 35-45 Celius inside the black metal box where the boards are.
The people that do this kind of stuff does not understand what heat does to electronics and the components.

So my friend bought it "broken" and did not have so much problem with it last summer.
But last autumn and really this winter the problem started to escalate!

Just before we did the reflow and replaced the realtek chip the machine would print anywhere from 1 inch to 5 inch and stopped with message "now processing" on the display on the machine and "no connection" in versaworks.

Very similar to others that I have read that have had this issue.
They have replaced the mainboard and the problem is gone.
Replacing the mainboard for $2000 + custom fee and VAT is not an option for us right now.

The thing that made me thinkt that it really was the realtek chip was that when we made the chip a bit cooler with freeze spray (around 15 celsius) the machine stopped working and when I made the chip warmer again (about 35-40 Celius) it started to work again. (I use a FLiR cam to check the temp on the chip)

The difference with the old chip and the new chip is that the leds where lit and flashed even thou the machine stopped working.
I think thou that we could see a difference on the activity led that it flashed far less when the machine stopped working.....

There is one thing that I came to think about yesterday, capacitors! very well known problem with aging electronics, especially since the previous owner liked to keep the machine very warm.
So I will check every capacitor tomorrow, may one of them died when I replaced the realtek chip.

I´ll will get back tomorrow when I know more.
 
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netsol

Active Member
krister, it sounds like you did EVERYTHING right.
checking caps is a really good idea
we used to have an analog ESR meter from creative electronics
i trusted it's results completely
an ex-exployee borrowed it& it ever came back, a few years ago
there are tons of them on ebay & amazon, but i can't say they are as accurate for this sort of problem.

are we sure your heat was not also effecting the power supply voltages?
there is nothing you are missing, or that i would have done differently
 

Krister Koppari

New Member
krister, it sounds like you did EVERYTHING right.
checking caps is a really good idea
we used to have an analog ESR meter from creative electronics
i trusted it's results completely
an ex-exployee borrowed it& it ever came back, a few years ago
there are tons of them on ebay & amazon, but i can't say they are as accurate for this sort of problem.

are we sure your heat was not also effecting the power supply voltages?
there is nothing you are missing, or that i would have done differently

Well, I have now checked all the caps, they are ok, they are all good in range of the tolerance according to spec.
There is voltage where it should be according to the Realtek spec.
My question now, is the new Realtek chips blank on arrival?
If they are, can I load the firmware/software to them while they are in the machine?
This question will be answered later this week.
I have taken the mainboard to my workshop and will replace the new chip with the old one.
If the network port will start working again I suspect that the new Realtek chips are blank and need to be programmed with firmware before they work.

If someone know about a sucessfull swap of old to new Realtek network chip without any firmware upload outside the machine, I would really like to know about it.

There are 2 jumpers beside the Realtek chip and when I change them from "operate" I get a error message 0010,

Description of error message 0010 from the service manual:
Network I/F Initialize has not been completed.
Network I/F does not work correctly. Firmware for Network I/F is not installed.
Check the firmware is installed into Network I/F. Main Board replacement

So my guess is that it is possible to do something with the firmware on the Realtek chip within the machine.

I know that you can update the firmware on the Realtek chip from a PC but you need a working connection before you can do that which I obviously dont have.....
 
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Krister Koppari

New Member
Schematic of Realtek network chip, I can not see any jumpers but I'm very tired now and will have another look tomorrow.
 

Attachments

  • schematic_realtek_network_chip.png
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netsol

Active Member
yes, i was wondering as well
krister did everything right, it should have worked right out of the gate
 

Krister Koppari

New Member
Well, since I haven't found any bad caps, nor any other bad solder joints, I have decided to solder back the original chip.

We atleast had network leds lit and flashing with the original chip.

Will try to do that this weekend but I have other work that pays the bills that I need to do first.

Get back when I have done it.
 

Cosmin

New Member
The problem is the FXO-31FL 25.000MHz. This ceramic oscilator not crystal as provided in the aplication note for the RTL8102 chip.
 
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netsol

Active Member
cosmin,
do you think so?
i would think you would get link light even if off frequency
when i buy a $8 5 port switch i am not sure there is a crystal in the switch & i would think you would still get link light even if there is not frequency lock, although i have never tried it.
 

Krister Koppari

New Member
The problem is the FXO-31FL 25.000MHz. This ceramic oscilator not crystal as provided in the aplication note for the RTL8102 chip.

Ok, so you suggest that I replace the oscilator with a real crystal?
I've had problems in the past when our supplier replaced a crystal with an oscilator without telling us.

Do you know of a replacement with same footprint and so on?
 

Cosmin

New Member
I have an VP540 with disconecting issue. The printer work only if i heating the network area. I change the RTL8102 chip twice and nothing. I change the cermic oscilator and the issue is gone.
 
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