OEM vehicle wraps coming from Ford

[CheapVehicleWrap]

Welcome Todd from New Jersey! You seem to have allot of knowledge. I'm confused as to how it has taken you so long to find this great forum.

 

[jasonx]

Arrogance will be your demise.

You said it.

just be happy we don't choose to target your area. Yet.

No one here doubts Lowens professionalism as a company. But having Matt come on this forum only to promote something and not share with the community and then make off the cuff remarks to other respected members of this forum doesn't look very professional.

Not to mention other members have since asked valid questions in regards to the certification which might benefit the rest of us.

 

[andy]

From where I'm sitting these certified programs are all about building a network of self employed installers.... and sod all to do with benefiting the industry or helping out the small independent guy.

Be honest.... you've grabbed lots of print work from the small guy and now need to ask them to do you a favour and install the wraps for a "generous" two quid a foot.

If independent sign shops sign up they allow you to grab more wrap work... you do the easy profitable bit... they do the difficult install. At the same time the independent guy inadvertently helps you to cut him out of his or her local market.... you snatch the production work he gets the installation crumbs.

At no point in all this certified guff do any of you even mention how certification covers design, print machine operation or lamination techniques.... that's because this is reserved for you... you don't want the independent shops to become better at producing wraps... they're merely installation cannon fodder.

In Europe there is none of this cobblers... good independent shops get work and charge prices which are directly in proportion to their abilities... good shops get good money, bad shops get bad money. Bigger companies with purchase orders for 200 vehicles either have to have full time installers on their books or they pay for installers... installers who take the work on knowing full well what they are getting into.

If you want sign shops to install your wraps just come out and say it.... all this rubbish about "certification for the good of the industry" insults the intelligence of the independent guy... they can see full well you want installers... and nothing else. Why does anyone even need a printer? In your scheme they'll never get to turn the darn thing on... it's install or nothing.

 

[eye4clr]

There are more options than Lowen for this certification. I personally know the guys at Wrap Experts and have found them to be nothing short of professional.

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...ources/GraphicsInstallationPrograms/Training/

 

[mzick]

As far as certs go....everyone has their own agenda and there are some certs that are better suited for you. Do your research and choose what is best for you. I was one of the 5 that set the base line for the testing purposes for the Lowen Cert / 3M Preferred test...and I am biased but I have gotten work from both Lowen and 3M...I am now on Lowen's radar and 3M's website. The jobs that i have done have more than paid for my expenses to test and I am now in front of people that wouldn't have known me otherwise. So do what you think is best for you and your company and go from there... wether you chose to become certified or not...you still have a choice..it's up to you.

 

[Pwear]

IP Check on ZooTodd? Couldn't possibly be one of Lowen's "affiliates", could it? Or could it *GASP* be mr. Lowen himself?

A bit fishy - first post, long rant on this very topic, just happened to find this forum just as this topic was being discussed...

I call BS sir.

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

From where I'm sitting these certified programs are all about building a network of self employed installers.... and sod all to do with benefiting the industry or helping out the small independent guy.

Be honest.... you've grabbed lots of print work from the small guy and now need to ask them to do you a favour and install the wraps for a "generous" two quid a foot.

If independent sign shops sign up they allow you to grab more wrap work... you do the easy profitable bit... they do the difficult install. At the same time the independent guy inadvertently helps you to cut him out of his or her local market.... you snatch the production work he gets the installation crumbs.

At no point in all this certified guff do any of you even mention how certification covers design, print machine operation or lamination techniques.... that's because this is reserved for you... you don't want the independent shops to become better at producing wraps... they're merely installation cannon fodder.

In Europe there is none of this cobblers... good independent shops get work and charge prices which are directly in proportion to their abilities... good shops get good money, bad shops get bad money. Bigger companies with purchase orders for 200 vehicles either have to have full time installers on their books or they pay for installers... installers who take the work on knowing full well what they are getting into.

If you want sign shops to install your wraps just come out and say it.... all this rubbish about "certification for the good of the industry" insults the intelligence of the independent guy... they can see full well you want installers... and nothing else. Why does anyone even need a printer? In your scheme they'll never get to turn the darn thing on... it's install or nothing.

Not only well spoken, but your post also brings to mind a multinational corporation I'm sure you're familiar with...WalMart. I have been WalMart free for about 9 months now. Used to love the place, right down the street. That's until i learned the real motive behind the beast. They're destroying the same people who are forced to work there. Etc. Etc. Etc.

 

[signgal]

IP Check on ZooTodd? Couldn't possibly be one of Lowen's "affiliates", could it? Or could it *GASP* be mr. Lowen himself?

A bit fishy - first post, long rant on this very topic, just happened to find this forum just as this topic was being discussed...

I call BS sir.

Duh! LOL



+1 @ wrapswrapswraps

 

[Pwear]

Duh! LOL

They don't call me Cap'n Obvious for nothin! :Big Laugh

 

[National Sign Co. - Print]

Zoo Signs is a very very legit wrap outfit based in FL.... They have been in the game for a long time and though I regard them as direct competition, Todd (whom i do not know) have there shit locked down and know whats up...

No need to hate on the "opinions" based on the Zoo posts. They have many miles of experience.

My 2 cents is to focus on your business that is in front of you rather than sweat the shit that is around you..

 

[CentralSigns]

My question was how we got from $10-15 or even more per square foot down to $2. Given the current wrap pricing out there someone must be getting rich. How can you be happy with 1/10 of the price you are getting now Zoo. Get real. There is printing and design, why not sub it all out, so everyone can design print and wrap. This is what everyone is mad about, it's not the "Lowen Certification" it's the loss of opportunity to get all the rest of the work, especially in times like now. That's what it all boils down to.

The best design and install companies will be left putting shitty customer generated crap on new vehicles, I can just see the mess that will be out there, coming soon to a theater near you. Well I guess we will get lots of laughs out of it at, every red light.

I think Lo-one and Frod should rethink this position. That's my rant for today, have a good weekend.

 

[SqueeGee]

I've seriously considered getting certified and even had the application completely filled out and ready to send it to UASG when my 3M rep happened to stop by and mentioned that they were going to start offering something a little different, so I decided to hold off.

I didn't have a preconceived idea of what Lowen means to the certification process or the industry in general for that matter before reading this thread. I would have gone to them or to UASG, PDAA, or whoever 3M had their deal with. I'm interested in being certified by 3M and using that designation as a way to leverage their brand in my company. I believe that in a competitive market, a "3M Certified Installer" would probably win out over a company who has no designation or one of the others, whether it be Fellers, PDAA, UASG, or Lowen. I think 3M means something to most people. The others, not so much.

After reading Mr. Lowen's responses, my sense is that, beyond not being very good with people in general, he couldn't care less about being a true partner in the sense that most of us would define that term. My opinion is that he's most likely working from Avery's interpretation of partnership and that's not a relationship that I believe is good for our industry.

I'd be very interested about how MY partners at 3M would view his comments.

 

[kstompaint]

After reading Mr. Lowen's responses, my sense is that, beyond not being very good with people in general, he couldn't care less about being a true partner in the sense that most of us would define that term. My opinion is that he's most likely working from Avery's interpretation of partnership and that's not a relationship that I believe is good for our industry.

I'd be very interested about how MY partners at 3M would view his comments.

If you think 3M or any other manufacturer is a "partner" to you, you are sadly naive. We explain the materials to customers every day. None of them give a damn about the brand of the product. They care about the design, print quality, seamless installation, durability and price. If their primary concern is price, I know I'll lose the job to the shop that uses lesser material, has little to no design experience and removes nothing from the car before wrapping it, so I tell them that. We don't advertise. Our customers are all repeat or referrals. When I explain that most shops use 3M because it is easier to install, but we generally use Oracal, which is made in Germany, due to its more agressive adhesive and better printing qualities... Of course, they are familiar with the 3M brand, but they usually say "You're the expert, we trust you and I'm sure the stuff made in Germany costs more." They're surprised to find out that it doesn't. They don't care about the brand of the vinyl or your certification buy that brand!

Mr. Lowen's agitating comments in this thread have discredited him to most of us, not that we intended to be "certified" by him anyway.

 

[SqueeGee]

I don't know how to respond to your "naive" comment other than to say my experiences with 3M must be different than yours. I firmly believe that the people that I know at 3M would be disturbed with how Mr. Lowen has presented himself here.

I won't pretend to know your business but I can definitively tell you that from the 15 years in my sign business, police/fire rescue/public safety agencies prefer 3M products. Since they represent a large portion of our business, I listen to them.

I agree that in many circumstances, a certification would mean nothing to the client BUT in some instances I believe it WOULD matter and in those cases, it could be the difference between winning a large project or losing it.

 

[Artgunner]

Pro. Peice is actually piece. But we're just saying. Thanks for the advice. Frankly we don't need your advice. Those installers that are choosing to make dollars with us are doing so. Those that don't can live their choices. ProWraps, we don't really need your opinion, just be happy we don't choose to target your area. Yet.

Oh boy... What a business model you have. Threats on open forum.:ROFLMAO: Really!?

 

[andy]

Take your pick... Neschen, Oracal, Ritrama, KPMF or Hexis... these are ALL quality European brands which make materials which are as good as or better than 3M.

If you are interested in wrap training this is the kind of thing available to us here in Europe.

http://www.metamark.co.uk/pages_tec/wrap_1.htm#

Basically a two day course run by a vinyl manufacturer and a print equipment maker.... no middlemen, no competitors being paid to train you to do THEIR installation work.

If enough US sign shops request wrap training from European vinyl suppliers I'm sure they will step up to the plate.. after all the more vinyl they sell the better.

 

[ZooTodd]

First post, cut and paste... now that's something to believe in.

Do your research. www.SignZoo.com. You can also find me listed directly on the 3M site as a Preferred Installer... Im the only 'Todd' listed in FL from a SignZoo...

 

[ZooTodd]

They don't call me Cap'n Obvious for nothin! :Big Laugh

They should call you Capt Dumbass!

No need to Google anything. You can find me on the 3M site; my listing info contains 'Zoo' and 'Todd'. It should be REALLY easy since Im the only one in Florida.

 

[MikePro]

Don't ever trust wisconsin people. Right????

thanks...
hey, tug on my finger real quick.... I think i jammed it.

 

[ZooTodd]

My question was how we got from $10-15 or even more per square foot down to $2. Given the current wrap pricing out there someone must be getting rich. How can you be happy with 1/10 of the price you are getting now Zoo. Get real. There is printing and design, why not sub it all out, so everyone can design print and wrap. QUOTE]

I hear ya!
I'm not 'happy' with 1/10 pricing. However, emotions dont help me make good decisions...

I'll always remember the first guy I trained to wrap. (and everyone since)
As soon as you teach them to INSTALL, they take off for greener pastures. Once they're gone, they realize the phone just doesn't ring by itself, and usually come back.
I have NEVER rehired somebody that was more valuable returning as they were leaving.
The people that are bitching about the price going down are the ones that are causing it.
As for me, its still a game of supply and demand. "Can I train more than will quit?" If so, the price goes down. This is math; Its absolute.

So, to answer your question. Im happy with 1/10 pricing because I can still make money. This is VERY scaleable, This is business...

Have a good day!