Painting in the cold question...

[leemajors]

New to the forum and recently started getting more work to paint business's signage and logos on their buildings in the Kansas City area. In the past I've mostly used stencil, spray paint, and a little brush work to clean up the edges.

For this next job I've got 15 year old logos that need to be touched up/ redone. I'm using 1 Shot and trying out a bunch of different brushes to see which type I like best.

My question though has to do with the weather. It's going to be 50+ degrees out for a couple of days but there is a chance of a little bit of rain. Not long, not much but it will most likely rain at some point. The later in the year it gets, the less chances of nice days I will have so I wanna try and get as much work do e as possible. They also hired us to do a lil touch up work to their windows and some spots where paint is chipping off.

Am I OK to do the logos w 1 Shot? Should I focus on the other work and wait for perfect conditions? Any suggestions for brushes to be used on red brick?

Thanks in advance for your consideration.

 

[Jillbeans]

...I would not use 1 Shot at all (supposedly they are reformulating it and I hope they do) It fades and gets chalky real fast. I'd suggest Ronan. (available via N Glantz)
Novacolours are good too, but because they are water-based I am not sure how they'd work in the cold and damp.

While you can work in the cold and damp, I would suggest waiting for dryer, warmer days if at all possible, both for your comfort and the ease of painting. For your brick surfaces you are going to want to use fitches. Mack Brush sells them. Novacolour requires a synthetic fitch and Mack also sells those. My Glantz also sells brushes but I don't know if all branches do.

If using oil-based lettering enamels you are going to want to bring some Penetrol in case the cold jams up your brushes. Latex paint thins with Floetrol.

Love....Jill

 

[TimToad]

If you paint during or soon after it rains, you'll be amazed at how much water hides in the crevices between bricks. Oil and water don't mix, so any water under your paint will want to escape as it evaporates severely affecting adhesion.

As an older Chicago based outdoor sign painter before moving out west in 1989, we'd work under nearly any weather conditions, but rain, snow and brutal cold are not your friends. In the deep freezes, myself and colleagues would thin their paint with Zylol (sp?) or gasoline, but that was for temporary billboard jobs that just couldn't be put off until the spring.

As far as brushes go, fitches and cutters are the historical brushes of choice for us Walldogs. Skip the "soft" fitches as you'll cry when you see how fast they wear down on rough surfaces given their premium cost.

http://www.mackbrush.com/Fitches_Cutters

 

[Gino]

I still use 1Shot, but then again, we still have a whole paint room full of the old stuff which is the good stuff.

If you are painting and it begins raining, you're fine for a short time, but if the wall gets kinda wet, you'll just hafta stop. Like mentioned, the paint won't mix if the canvas is wet. It won't hurt the paint already on and when you start up again, you won't be able to see where you left off and began again.

50º is no problem. I've lettered well below freezing and the paint lasted a decade or more. Your paint gets like peanut butter, so take a small portable heater with ya and heat it up from time to time. There's some old stories out there of how some of the 'real' old timers used to thin the paint, but we won't go there.

Jill mentioned Ronan..... that might be worth looking into. I wouldn't go over top of oil-based paints with water-based paints. That won't work for the same reasons of the rain, but here's an old way we used to do it.

I don't know the complexity of these logos or how high or whatever, but let's just say it's an easy access. Trace all the lines with a simple magic marker. Paint over the complete area after scraping and prepping the entire area. You do know, you hafta prep any area you intend to paint. You just don't add paint and think you're done. It's like a dentist filling a cavity. He doesn't just throw the filler in there, he cleans it out thoroughly and puts the filler in so it sticks to a good surface. Well, your paint works the same way. Otherwise, your job will be worthless in no time and you'll have a very p!ssed off customer on your hands. Once the whole thing is scraped, prepped and then painted, choose a primer that will either be suited for water or oil based paints and do the entire thing over. Not patches. The magic marker will bleed through your backing coat and you'll be able to use the complete old logo a a guide.

As for the brushes, fitches are good, but depending on the size of the strokes and complexity of everything, rollers are also good for big fill-in work.

Without pictures, I'm at a disadvantage of total advise.

Good luck ​

 

[Billct2]

not saying I ever actually tried it...but desperate times....

 

[Gino]

not saying I ever actually tried it...but desperate times....

That's one I've heard many times. Never tried it either, but I guess with the amount of alcohol these guys used to drink, it worked........

 

[TimToad]

not saying I ever actually tried it...but desperate times....

Old wives tale..... it might mix in and superficially appear to be thinning the paint, but unless you pee petrochemicals, its not much different than trying to thin oil base with water.

 

[Gino]

Old wives tale..... it might mix in and superficially appear to be thinning the paint, but unless you pee petrochemicals, its not much different than trying to thin oil base with water.

I hafta agree with ya, but with the amount of alkalinity in some people's urine, it's quite possible it can have certain effects that using water can't do. Besides, ya can drink water, but ya can't drink pee or paint thinner, so maybe there is something to this afterall.................... :Big Laugh

Now don't get carried away with this, we're just funnin'



​

However, it's not an old wives' tale, that much I do know.​

 

[TimToad]

Highly alkaline pee aside, I keep having this vision of one of the aliens from the "Alien" films dressed like an ol' Walldog and peeing into a can of paint and having it burn right through the bottom of the can. Wait, it was their blood that was acid...... LOL Never mind.

 

[leemajors]

Good luck [/INDENT]

Gino, thank for all the great feedback. Yup, I got prep work to do. I painted houses for a lil over a year when I was 18 so I'm familiar with prepping the surface to create a good foundation for the paint to adhere to as it cures.

I do have a question of clarification about the process you mentioned. I love the idea of using a magic marker to outline the logo so when you paint over it the marker outline will show through, that makes perfect sense...now for the clarification. Your explanation sounded like you paint over the outline twice. Will that still show through?

It seems like you would scrape the old paint, outline the logo, use a primer over the old logo allowing the outline to show through then start with the brush work. Where am I missing something.

I'm trying to post a pic but I'm on my phone, lemme try something

 

[Jillbeans]

Oh, hell, that thing isn't even worth saving. I'd make a new pounce pattern and redo it in a less graffiti-like way.

The method Gino described is this: Clean the wall, go over the design using a sharpie. Paint over it with Ronan Block-Out white primer. Hopefully the sharpie will belled through, creating a template for you to paint. In this case you would cut in with the background color then do the lettering.

You have to be careful to use just a thin coat of the block-out white (roll it on) because if you go too heavy the marker won't bleed through. I discovered this at 70' in the air one day. But as I said, what you are trying to save isn't even worth saving. I'd start fresh.

 

[Gino]

Totally agree. That monstrosity is worthless. Knowing your business is one thing and helping customers is another, but to take on a job like this is a disaster..... then you wanna refurbish some windows....... ??

Talk them into something a sign person would be worthy of doing, not that mess.

 

[Jillbeans]

Something similar to this quick suggestion.

 

[leemajors]

Jill, thanks for the help and the clarification. Yeah the logo in that pic is crap. What do you do when someone comes to you with crap and they ask for you to help not make it look crappy anymore? I like lettering and I get it when you guys say sometimes the customer doesn't realize how ****ty their job is but do you guys normally pass on this work? Seems like there are a lot of crappy signs like this.



Here's a pic of one of the other logos that they naturally want the one I'm working on to match. Thoughts?



Oh, and they didn't originally ask me to touch up the windows but I offered since I've done it before and I was able to get a couple extra bucks for the extra work. Idk, prolly should have let them sort the windows out for themselves but I've done it before so I didn't figure it would be a big deal.

Thanks for everyone's input, I'm prolly going to start here on the boards before I even put a bid in on a job. I really appreciate the help!

-Lee

 

[Craig Sjoquist]

As far as thinners go for cold & damp conditions of fall & winter, in Minnesota I used Japan Dryer or Lacquer Thinner till it got down to about 23 above then I stopped & waited till it got that warm again unless absolutely necessary at which it took twice as long & hassles were a great deal more.

White fitch for rougher surface, Black fitch for smoother surface ( enamels )

 

[Jillbeans]

Those are not as bad as the one that you first posted. You're going to have to make a pattern from the cleanest logo you can find and go from there.

 

[Gino]

Are all of those pictures on/from the same building ??

 

[leemajors]

Are all of those pictures on/from the same building ??

Yes

 

[Sidney]

One Shot ALL THE way

One shot is amazingingly tolerant!! 50'degress is nothing for One Shot. As far as rain...it won't hurt it!! As long as it doesn't rain for 2 or 3 days straight after you just painted the design!!! I have 23.5 years experience with One Shot.."it's the best in the market!!!" You can't guarantee the longevity of the paint if the surface wood/concrete etc is breaking down.

 

[TimToad]

One shot is amazingingly tolerant!! 50'degress is nothing for One Shot. As far as rain...it won't hurt it!! As long as it doesn't rain for 2 or 3 days straight after you just painted the design!!! I have 23.5 years experience with One Shot.."it's the best in the market!!!" You can't guarantee the longevity of the paint if the surface wood/concrete etc is breaking down.

Nor can you guarantee longevity if you apply an oil based paint on a wet surface after any substantial amount of rain. Its paint, not glue. Rain drops trapped in crevices and pock marks in the bricks will create a barrier between the new paint and the old and once they evaporate, it will show as circular weak spots in the paint film.