Print & cut comparison

[PaulS]

Gerber Edge vs. Roland Versacamm...

The only true comparison I can get is to ask users their experience.

Right now the Gerber seems better to me because it will also be used for cutting heavy sandblast resist.

Any feedback would be appreciated, thanks in advance.



(edited to correct spelling misteaks)

 

[PaulS]

I already have Signlab 5.0, that could be used with the Gerber too, right?

Thanks again.

 

[DRPSignsNGrafix]

one is a Eco solvent printer and one is a thermal printer. It's like comparing oranges and apples. What are your real needs. Then lean that way.

 

[Mike Paul]

There has been a lot of threads comparing thermal to inkjet. You may get more info from a search since this subject had been around the block so many times.

 

[PaulS]

Thanks Mike.

The real need is durability.

Here in Belize we get 950 watts of UV per square metre per hour, hence my suntanned feet but it really beats up well, anything really.

The Roland is considerably cheaper but sounds like a laminator is required for durability.

The Gerber is (more) durable but more expensive, also just quickly checking the consumables, they seem more expensive.

Reading the Roland forums I see problems with printhead clogging, that would also be an issue here.

The Gerber system is looking favourite right now...

Thanks again I appreciate your time.

 

[PaulS]

...You may get more info from a search since this subject had been around the block so many times.

I'll do that, thanks.

 

[Mike Paul]

Laminating Inkjet prints is a must. Sounds like you would want to laminate the Edge prints also for durability and u/v protection if the sun is that harsh.

 

[PaulS]

About the same value for California, NM and Texas, no?

 

[njsigns]

Gerber Edge vs. Roland Versacamm...

... it will also be used for cutting heavy sandblast resist.
The real need is durability.

Here in Belize we get 950 watts of UV per square metre per hour, hence my suntanned feet but it really beats up well, anything really.

....a laminator is required for durability.

Having used both thermal and inkjet printers, I would say (without a doubt) both will need to be laminated for durability, but the thermal will outlast any inkjet I've seen. I doubt the Versacamm would be able to cut sandblast resist even on it's best day.

You already know what the right choice is... the Gerber, with a laminator. It's a bit more "spendy" but I think you'd be making a mistake to go any other route...

Gene

 

[PaulS]

Thanks all I appreciate your time.

 

[speedmedia]

Why not go with another print cut system or a printer and cutter separate combo. Personally I think the Gerber edge is find for cutting and printing little decals but expensive to run as well as expensive to buy to be limited to 15" or whatever it is.

I would also go and demo each type of unit. A a solvent style printer will have much better quality than the edge with 4 color process images.

I see a lot of people that have Edge's and i am sure they have there place to some but I think they are way to limiting for the $$$

Look into Mutoh/Graphtec or a Mimaki setup or something before making a decision.

Thanks,
Kurt Dietrich
Speed Media

 

[Jim Doggett]

Gerber Edge vs. Roland Versacamm...

The only true comparison I can get is to ask users their experience.

Right now the Gerber seems better to me because it will also be used for cutting heavy sandblast resist.

I think you nailed it. Putting a cutting head on a printer doesn't make for a very good cutter. Media travel on printers was never intended to go both ways very well, which is why printer-cutters cannot cut anywhere near as well or fast as a dedictaed vinyl cutter.

But you're not limited to an EDGE/GS solution. Graphtec cutters, with ARMS contour-cutting alignment or Summa with OPOS open you up to an array of printers, especially EcoSol which is faster (way) higher resolution (way way) and lower output cost (way way way).

EDGE is a fabulous specialty decal printer. But for large format, banners and vehicle graphics, EcoSol is lightyears better.

And a great cutter, like Graphtec, will cut sand-blast, diamond grade, and a lot more, at 58 inches per second with guaranteed tracking accuracy to 50 feet in length.

My $0.02,

Jim

 

[Mainframe]

I have to reply to this on 2 fronts, last year I had no printer in house, I used a service that had an edge printer, I needed some licsence plate sized graphic decals with various corporate logos supplied to me from one source, they all had pms colors etc, when I got the decals they all had fuzzy color output, it was explained to me that when the ribbons have to mix colors they look like that, I made them redo them & they still looked bad,I don't know if it was operator error or not but it cost me a customer. fast forward to present time & I have had a big call for digital prints in the last year,so I check into a printer, Roland has a vp540 they advertise to run after being left sitting for a few days, I find this to be true as I also do all the other types of signs so I don't run it every day, I am now in the middle of painting 9 sandblasted signs I used the 540 to cut the mask for, by the way the 540 output for small graphics is awesome! and it is really nice to be able to print a 4x30 foot banner in house . Getting a printer is a big step, but if you take it I recommend an eco solvent printer, at least consider the Roland in your search

 

[Fred Weiss]

I have to reply to this on 2 fronts, last year I had no printer in house, I used a service that had an edge printer, I needed some licsence plate sized graphic decals with various corporate logos supplied to me from one source, they all had pms colors etc, when I got the decals they all had fuzzy color output, it was explained to me that when the ribbons have to mix colors they look like that, I made them redo them & they still looked bad,I don't know if it was operator error or not but it cost me a customer.

Sounds to me like the problem was:

• The files were low resolution bitmaps, or
• Your Edge printer did not understand how to us higher LPI settings to reduce graininess, or
• The files supplied were not vector files thus eliminating the option to use spot color ribbons with zero graininess.

The Gerber Edge system offers a number of benefits not generally available with inkjet systems. It's primary disadvantage is the single panel size limits of 11.8" in height. The supply cost differences disappear when you consider the workflow improvements by not having to wait for drying and not having to laminate most output. Those costs are further reduced by the use of third party supplies.

Benefits of the Edge ...

• Spot colors allow you to print white impressions, colors, metallics, and medals without any need for color management. Spot colors can also be overprinted in what is called Spectratone to produce a predictable result for thousands of additional spot colors including many dead on matches for Pantone solids. Spot colors are the real strength of the Gerber Edge system because of the way customers love their look.
• Printing can be accomplished on a wide range of normal films from calendared, to cast, to metallics, to reflectives in either spot, Spectratone or process colors.
• Edge bleeds are carried out routinely with no concern about adhesive breakdown and edge curling.
• Pinfeed drive on both the printer and cutter allow for excellent print to cut registration and little or no need to babysit the production operations.
• There are no solvent fumes or dry times so workflow is continuous and uninterrupted.
• There is no need to laminate. For situations requiring extra sun and abrasion protection, a clear UV/Abrasion Guard foil is simply overprinted.

The Edge is a highly productive and profitable way to produce durable labels, decals and smaller graphics. We had a large wholesale job this week which we completed in just under 40 manhours including printing, cutting, weeding, and individual trim. After deducting the materials consumed, the profit on the job was roughly $7,500 or $187.50 per hour. We got the job because the specs were white, gold metallic, burgundy, red and blue on high performance clear vinyl. The largest label involved measured 4" x 12"

This is the first repeat of a job we first did in July for a local commercial printer who is reselling it to a local equipment manufacturer. His feedback to us was that the client was ecstatic with the first order and that we can expect similar orders every one to two months.

My Edge and Envision plotter were purchased in 1998. I am delighted that most of my competition has opted for wide-format inkjets because it makes my end of the market that much more profitable.

 

[Mainframe]

The files I supplied were vector, I suspected it was operator error but had no way to prove it, as for color management I use the swatch system set up by Roland, you have to design in cmyk, Roland supplies a file for Versaworks that you print out on the media you use commonly, it has your actual serial number of your printer on the file, then you take this big sheet to your cutting table & cut it up & punch a hole in each one put a zip tie through it & now you have a swatch that is color matched to YOUR printer with your favorite media, then you load the swatch pallet into illustrator and while you are designing you can show your customer the swatches, it looks a lot like my pantone swatch I use that cost me a hundred bucks but anyway when I choose a color from the swatch no matter what it looks like on the screen it prints out matching the swatch. You can make this swatch with all the different types of media you use & just pick the number on the color & it matches, I don't know what system gerber uses but would imagine every manufacturer has something like this
As far as the "home run" job you did with your gerber congrats, but I think for the local small sign shop you get more traffic on the soccer banners, truck & van lettering, lighted sign faces etc, now you have to agree that 54" wide printing gives you a lot of versatility for a wide range of jobs, even the 540 cut the sandblast mask but I am sure it didn't do it as handily as the graphtec would. My point was for the money you can cover a wider range of jobs with the same money with a VERY nice looking product. I was making signs 10 years ago & at that time wanted the gerber, but held out & subbed out till I couldn't take waiting etc. You gave me an example of one specialty job that you could cover with a specialty printer, I make signs, most of them are bigger than 2x3 & I wouldn't want to have to use a 15 inch printer for them, as for the color matching I didn't think many Roland users were using the Versaworks matching swatches after reading the rgb-cmyk thread but I didn't want to get into it at that time, I have no doubt the Gerber has it's place in the industry but my idea is toward the over all average of jobs walking in through the door of the local sign shop but if I would have had a call from printer like you did I would have made a different choice, I guess you have to monitor what jobs come through the door & make your choice accordingly.

 

[Bill Modzel]

I have both in house. An Edge II with a Gerber GSXplus plotter and an HP9000s with a Graphtec FC7000-100 plotter and each has it's plusses. We are also a graphic, non-textile, screen print shop so I can actually run most jobs manually also but in all honesty, our screen print output has dropped steadily for the last 5 years.

I'm an all Mac shop so I run my Edge with MacImprint. Consumables are definitely more expensive for the Edge but it is such a versatile piece of equipment that, at this point in time, it's irreplaceable. The ability to print white, along with metallic colors is great but the substrate variety is what makes it unique. I print thousands of dollars of reverse print lexan labels a year with the Edge. Clear static decals are also an Edge job because they need the white backing color on them.

Right now I"m running 500, 3 color, contour cut decals on the HP. If they weren't contour cut, I'd screen print them. Before the HP, if the quantity was less, I'd Edge print them.

They all have their place. You just have to think what is your "normal" type of printed job and what is your budget and make your decision on that and your budget.

A Graphtec plug here. I actually have a Windows RIP running in XP on my Mac Pro. That is how I drive the HP9000 at this time. (the Mac version is in beta right now) However, I cut the jobs directly from Illy CS3 using Graphtec's Cutting Master plug-in on the Mac side of things and the registration is just about perfect.

 

[stu carr]

gerber pricing question

Question for both Fred and Bill,

I would really appreciate your opinion on the Gerber for my application. I have a niche product producing a sign rider that is 6" x 24". About 95% of the signs produced are red on white but we also do blue and black. The sign is screenprinted except for the toll-free number and extension which are cut vinyl. I sub out the screenprinting. The printed area is 5" x 23" and the signs are double sided. So with a printed height of 11.8 inches on the Gerber I could create two decals for every 24 inches of vinyl. Using third party suppliers as Fred suggests it looks like the spot ribbon will run about .40per linear foot and about .33 per linear foot for intermediate vinyl from LG. So I would be looking at $1.46 to produce the two decals I need for both sides of my sign. Is this correct or did I miss something? Thanks for your help.

 

[Fred Weiss]

Question for both Fred and Bill,

I would really appreciate your opinion on the Gerber for my application. I have a niche product producing a sign rider that is 6" x 24". About 95% of the signs produced are red on white but we also do blue and black. The sign is screenprinted except for the toll-free number and extension which are cut vinyl. I sub out the screenprinting. The printed area is 5" x 23" and the signs are double sided. So with a printed height of 11.8 inches on the Gerber I could create two decals for every 24 inches of vinyl. Using third party suppliers as Fred suggests it looks like the spot ribbon will run about .40per linear foot and about .33 per linear foot for intermediate vinyl from LG. So I would be looking at $1.46 to produce the two decals I need for both sides of my sign. Is this correct or did I miss something? Thanks for your help.

You are correct.

 

[PaulS]

Some fine examples of 'working smart', thanks again you guys and long may you continue with your skills.

 

[synergy_jim]

Just to clear up the whole sandblast thing....

I have cut it on my versacamm and my xc540 with no problems at all... Its all in getting the right blade.

 

[Jim Doggett]

Just to clear up the whole sandblast thing....

I have cut it on my versacamm and my xc540 with no problems at all... Its all in getting the right blade.

Thinner PVC (Hartco, for example) or thicker/tougher rubber (Anchor, etc.)?