Routing/painting mask material issues

GB2

Very Active Member
I was wondering what type of masking anyone might be using, specifically for routing and painting afterward. I typically use Gerber Mask I for most of my work on painted substrates, which are then routed and then painted and/or gold leafed in the routed areas. Lately though, I've been having some trouble with the mask not adhering well on the cut edges, which has been allowing some paint bleeding and poor results. Recently this has been with straight cut edges; previously I've never had a problem with incise cut edges. Also, I've done some spray painting with Krylon and some automotive primers and paints in the routed areas but that immediately peels the mask material right off the substrate. Typically I'd be using One Shot enamel with their Universal Primer, which usually hasn't been any problem. I'd appreciate any input if anyone has had good success with any other mask material or has any other insight here....thanks!
 

imaSIGNr

Very Active Member
Krylon is lacquer base .It is too hot for the mask. Try a spray paint like XOrust or Rustoleum. They are not lacquer base.....Be sure your primer is not lacquer base also.
 

geb

Very Active Member
I used Oracle mask, blue colored, recently on mdo with one shot and chromatic bulletin. The mask has been around for 4 years maybe, but it worked great, no bleed through. Don't know how it would hold up to routing and those substrates.

George
 

Jillbeans

Major Contributor
I don't rout, and I hate to paint with masks, but I really do like the Oramask (it's like a smokey grey, kinda looks like etched glass vinyl)
It doesn't crinkle or lift with hotter paints, and it's not as brittle as Gerber mask (shredding when removing, etc.)
I just recently had a ghosting issue with it when laid over a 1-Shot painted background, though.
Love.....Jill
 

John L

Very Active Member
I have done a lot of Vcarve routing just using perfect tear transfer tape (the kind that isnt as stringy when you tear it). Doesnt stick too tight, or come loose at the edges. Cheaper than any mask.

The downside that I have found is that you cannot let it set after routed very long before you paint your routed areas. It will shrink some and pull away from the edges after routing (after a couple days, or less in a hot shop).

If you paint right away, it works great for me. Experiment some. Hope that helps.
 

Typestries

Very Active Member
need more info to help. We do A LOT of mask and rout. What type of paint are u using, latex, alkyd, brand, sheen? How apply the paint, brush, roll, spray? How long after paint to apply mask? what brand of mask? Have you changed any of the above lately? We have dealt with every mask issue there is, please be specific so I can try to help. thanks
 

imaSIGNr

Very Active Member
I don't rout, and I hate to paint with masks, but I really do like the Oramask (it's like a smokey grey, kinda looks like etched glass vinyl)
It doesn't crinkle or lift with hotter paints, and it's not as brittle as Gerber mask (shredding when removing, etc.)
I just recently had a ghosting issue with it when laid over a 1-Shot painted background, though.
Love.....Jill
I get the ghosting almost always with mask, I usually have used Gerber mask. It used to scare me, but I found that it just goes away after the mask is off for awhile.....I think it may be caused by a reaction with the paint and chemical in the mask adhesive because the paint is not truly dry......
 

GB2

Very Active Member
Thank you George and Jill...I was thinking about trying some Oracal mask so you confirmed that it's probably worth a try.


need more info to help. We do A LOT of mask and rout. What type of paint are u using, latex, alkyd, brand, sheen? How apply the paint, brush, roll, spray? How long after paint to apply mask? what brand of mask? Have you changed any of the above lately? We have dealt with every mask issue there is, please be specific so I can try to help. thanks


I thought I was sort of specific, but to review, the substrates are typically pre-painted with One Shot Lettering Enamel full strength out of the can (like Jill likes it!) or One Shot Bulletin Enamel Full strength out of the can. These are both gloss and the mask is typically applied 18-24 hours after painting minimum. Usually use Gerber Mask I and then rout through the mask and the painted substrate and follow up with painting of the exposed carved areas. The paint used for the routed areas has usually been One Shot Universal Primer with a finish coat of Lettering Enamel or Bulletin paint. Lately the problem has been with straight cut (male pattern cut) of the Bulletin painted substrate followed by spray application of Krylon or automotive primer in the routed areas. The mask has not adhered well on the cut edges and then the paint has been bleeding under or just peeling the mask right off.

I understand those laquer based paints are probably too hot to use in that manner but even an attempt at Universal primer and One Shot in the routed areas has been bleeding.

I could probably try Gerber Mask II, which has a more agressive adhesive but I'm a little concerned about the mask peeling the paint off the substrate, as I've had that happen before too.
 

GB2

Very Active Member
By the way, I am using brand new, sharp bits but now that I think about it...maybe I should make a less agressive first pass on the cut so I just cut through the mask and then go for the deeper finish cuts with the router. This may yield a cleaner cut edge with less impact on the adhesion of the mask so the paint will have less of an effect on it.
 

AARON_INK.

New Member
Great questions and answers been routing and painting for years and have always wanted to try masking then routing but have been afraid of it.I usually just prime real well then rout and do the finishing by hand. How well does the mask hold up on profile cuts? (Oracal mask)
Thanks
 

GB2

Very Active Member
The straight cutting bits I have been using are in fact up-cutting. That's a great suggestion that I just came across also. Changing to a down- cutting bit may help to stop lifting the mask on the edges of straight cuts.
 

iSign

Major Contributor
great read...

hopefully by this time next year I'll be needing this information.

One thought I might consider is to let the oneshot cure more then 24 hours.

I'm not sure it could be a factor, but I'm surprised you're not having other problems laying down the mask that early. I usually don't trust vinyl, or mask on oneshot until about 72 hours of curing time.
 
Hi all from down under:Australia

After years of mask and paint we found a 3M cast vinyl with a semi permenant glue to be best, no shrinkage

We under coat with the same colour top coat ,then let dry, before applying letter colour to stop bleeding

Watch your room temperature ,most masks have temperature usage recomendations ,too cold and they will 'shatter' when routing, too hot ie in sun they will lift and wrinkle

Hope this helps

If anyone has any traning vid's or cd's for enroute or flexi they don't need any more please let me know
mal.highlander@bigpond.com
Ta Mal
 
Top