S60600 Horizontal Banding "lawn mower banding"

[royalwrapz]

I got a demo S60600 in Jan 2022. Showed up with 1 head not working. Head got replaced and printer worked amazing for 2 months. In the middle of a job it started banding. Canceled the print ran a nozzle check and a handful of nozzles missing. Clean, clean, good nozzle check. Started printing and finished the job. Then it kept happening job after job after job. This was at 8 pass on avery 1105. Nozzle drop out randomly. Also when printing 6 pass on 3m 40c I get What Epson is calling "lawn mower banding" light and dark banding.

Decision one came out and replaced heads. Did not fix the issue
Epson Tech came out. They could not figure out what the issues are. They replace heads again, caps, pumps, dampers, lines pretty much everything in the machine they replaced over 5 months. They think it is Onyx 21 causing the banding issues.

Last week they finally sent a new S60600 printer and Epson tech installed the machine. First print on 3m40c 6 pass banding. Next print on avery 1105 8 pass nozzle drop out 15 feet into print. Next print 2 feet. Once again Epson has no idea what the issues are.
Epson is telling me that banding on 6 pass is normal
Epson is telling me that printing solid colors on 8pass is to high demand for the printer and that it is causing nozzle drop out.
Epson is sending another tech next week to start replacing parts on the new printer
Even though they say nothing is wrong with the printer.

Adjustments have been made auto and manual
Epson tech printed test prints in service mode 6 pass with the banding and said that is normal
Profiles are from Epson Dashboard.
Epson is saying the issues are from Onyx or my profiles.
Printer is in temp controlled room 45% humidity and 78 Degrees

Any help or suggestions

 

[royalwrapz]

Download a trial of onyx 22 and see if onyx 21 truly is the culprit?
Good god though, shy of the wasted space, time, and media, you have a new unit at this point for the demo unit cost?

Just tried onyx 22 yesterday. No help.
It's about even at this point.

 

[netsol]

for $50 install flexi subscription
i believe there is a 7 or 10 day full functional trial
you will know A LOT quicker than 7 days if it is the rip

i am inclined to believe them about 6 pass, but i have almost no experience with that series of epson

 

[netsol]

question,
we have all older equipment, so, i am not sure of the answer
when you say "epson tech" does that mean an epson employee, or do they have a referral network that local servicers sign up for and get sent out for warranty issues?

 

[Saturn]

I can't imagine it's the RIP.

You could try doing unidirectional (if you aren't already) just to see if that gives it enough time to catch up, ink wise.

There's also a "drying time per pass" setting on the printer you could play with. It all kind of defeats the purpose of having a really fast machine, but I think it's the reality of trying to lay down dark solid colors. Any missing nozzles will show up worse too.

I've seen starvation on my S80600 once or twice on solid things that I was testing outside the usual production jobs.

 

[royalwrapz]

for $50 install flexi subscription
i believe there is a 7 or 10 day full functional trial
you will know A LOT quicker than 7 days if it is the rip

i am inclined to believe them about 6 pass, but i have almost no experience with that series of epson

Good idea. I will try the flexi
With the first printer (demo) it printed amazing for 2 months. 4pass 6pass same materials

 

[royalwrapz]

If Epson is really convinced the machine is fine, and that its software based, do you have another pc to install and run from for trial purposes? I'd go fully down that rabbit hole at this point, even pulling fresh profiles from epson's dashboard.
Can you pull power from a different circuit? Though this seems to not be an issue as it was working well previously, right?
Is it running on win10? Did win10 update mid print?
Any chance you can check and rollback any drivers that have updated between now and when the issue started?

Have you tried hitting it? Used to work with my old tube tv, I hear it still works for notarealsignguy's dishwasher...

The demo printer worked perfectly for 2 months. Have tried a different computers even different versions of onyx. All new profiles multiple times. Circuit is fine and has been tested

Definitely have tried hitting it and kicking it and throwing it......

 

[royalwrapz]

question,
we have all older equipment, so, i am not sure of the answer
when you say "epson tech" does that mean an epson employee, or do they have a referral network that local servicers sign up for and get sent out for warranty issues?

Yes multiple Epson employees "Epson techs" "Epson specialist". Even though they didn't know how to load material

 

[royalwrapz]

I can't imagine it's the RIP.

You could try doing unidirectional (if you aren't already) just to see if that gives it enough time to catch up, ink wise.

There's also a "drying time per pass" setting on the printer you could play with. It all kind of defeats the purpose of having a really fast machine, but I think it's the reality of trying to lay down dark solid colors. Any missing nozzles will show up worse too.

I've seen starvation on my S80600 once or twice on solid things that I was testing outside the usual production jobs.

I don't believe it is the rip. As it has the banding printing from Epson techs laptop when running test prints.
Have tried bi and uni. Head 1 head 2 and both

 

[DAVID MARSHALL]

I don't believe it is the rip. As it has the banding printing from Epson techs laptop when running test prints.
Have tried bi and uni. Head 1 head 2 and both

 

[DAVID MARSHALL]

I suspect this may be a combination of the media, relative humidity and head height causing static electricity to take out nozzles.

Try these three steps to isolate the problem. Ensure your heads have all nozzles firing before each step.

1. Ensure your head is not too high. The head height should be as close you can run without causing head strikes, default setting is usually good. Run a test of the problematic print and check.
2. Increase the relative humidity to 60%. I would expect to have static issues in such a dry environment. Run a test of the problematic print and check.
3. Change the media to something else. Some media are just static mills and can cause problems if step 1 and 2 are not right. Run a test of the problematic print and check.

From painful experience, it's easy for techs to spend days burning ink and media trying to fix a printer when it's really a setup problem. They are trained look for mechanical/electrical problems and ignore everything outside of the printer cabinet.

 

[neutrinocv]

I have an S40600 (4 yrs old) which is the same as an S60600 except with only 1 head and no dryer. I mostly print solid colors in 6 and 8 passes (bi-directional) on different vinyls from 3M, Avery, Metamark using Onyx-12 RIP Centre and Dashboard profiles without such issues most of the time. I really doubt that your issues are software (RIP, cpu) related.

I encounter issues like this when, obviously, there are too many missing nozzles but I tend to keep the head clean at all times. The missing nozzles shown in your pictures are not enough to create this sort of banding.

I also encountered banding, once, because the carriage bars were in need of cleaning and lubrification. Since then, I routinely maintain them without any issues.

Banding can also come from incorrect platen heating. Incorrect platen heat can also cause dripping.

My best guess for your situation is that you may have a platen heater that is in trouble in some way or your dryer is part of the problem. I know that you encountering the issue with 2 different machines but there may be a problem in the settings made for these 2 components...

Hope this may be of some help.

 

[micadesign]

have you tried other profile or always de same??

i have a similar issue on my printer, but i have a mimaki jv300-160.

beginning of the day test print is fine! print +/- 3m or more and became banding on solid color. stop print and do a new test print and have a few nozzles missing from head 2 (channel magenta and cyan). or my head needs replacement (4 years old) or cap need adjustment.

does banding in all material? banner too?

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

Can you re-try the test using a colour that isn't blue/cyan heavy?

 

[netsol]

If Epson is really convinced the machine is fine, and that its software based, do you have another pc to install and run from for trial purposes? I'd go fully down that rabbit hole at this point, even pulling fresh profiles from epson's dashboard.
Can you pull power from a different circuit? Though this seems to not be an issue as it was working well previously, right?
Is it running on win10? Did win10 update mid print?
Any chance you can check and rollback any drivers that have updated between now and when the issue started?

Have you tried hitting it? Used to work with my old tube tv, I hear it still works for q

I suspect this may be a combination of the media, relative humidity and head height causing static electricity to take out nozzles.

Try these three steps to isolate the problem. Ensure your heads have all nozzles firing before each step.

1. Ensure your head is not too high. The head height should be as close you can run without causing head strikes, default setting is usually good. Run a test of the problematic print and check.
2. Increase the relative humidity to 60%. I would expect to have static issues in such a dry environment. Run a test of the problematic print and check.
3. Change the media to something else. Some media are just static mills and can cause problems if step 1 and 2 are not right. Run a test of the problematic print and check.

From painful experience, it's easy for techs to spend days burning ink and media trying to fix a printer when it's really a setup problem. They are trained look for mechanical/electrical problems and ignore everything outside of the printer cabinet.

royal REALLY might want to give one of these a try:

https://www.amazon.com/Milty-5036694022153-Zerostat-Anti-Static-Blue/dp/B0033SHDSS/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxYWxlOrX-QIVCsDICh0DawovEAAYASAAEgLktfD_BwE&hvadid=616863034947&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9004005&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=12319099424228093089&hvtargid=kwd-315448633329&hydadcr=24660_13611807&keywords=anti-static+gun&qid=1661081335&s=electronics&sr=1-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExSldWWE1ZTjMyVVE5JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjc3NTU0M0dKMTAwQTBPNEZVVyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMzAzMDM0MTZGU0NKWVlHMEQwQSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

this is not what i consider a "static problems" time of year, so it has to be a series of thing, creating the perfect storm.

my impression is that machine is just going to be susceptable to static problems

you are certainly on the right track looking for 60% humidity, but i am afraid we end upwith a problem that "comes & goes"

raise humidity, try the static gun and SOMEONE should look the machine over & see if a static suppression brush was left out during reassembly after some sort of service

amazon will let you return ANYTHING, for almost any reason.

 

[neutrinocv]

Opposite of the S40600, the S60600 has a dryer unit over the output's heat platen. It's true that a too dry environment could either increase the "speed" of the drying and/or increase static with this dryer pushing dry and hot air over the output; both possibly creating the banding. I'd stick a small hygrometer (just a few bucks) at the center of the clear plexiglass of the output door (on the outside...) to see what kind of humidity you have at the output when printing; if it's anything below 50% you may have a lack of humidity problem. Nothing a good room humidifier can't resolve.. Like I said earlier, I doubt this is software (RIP) or computer related and the dashboard profiles are usually very good in the overall adjustments (ink volume, platen heat, head height, etc); at least with the S40600. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[ColorCrest]

Adjustments have been made auto and manual

I recommend you outsource the blue panel file as a sample for yourself and any technician or salesperson to evaluate. If you purchased the so-called “demo” from a dealer, have them print the file and / or send the file to Epson. They should entertain that more an opportunity than a challenge. The exercise is almost guaranteed to be an eye-opener to all parties.

Of matters that are in your control, know that banding is primarily the fault of media feed adjustment / tension, uni-directional / bi-directional head alignment, nozzles, head height, and heater settings in that order. (Discounting operator errors using incorrect setups or media loading troubles and media faults such as sticky coating, physical damage, old age, etc.)

Such a consistent banding pattern is not indicative of environmental or static troubles. The first two points above are easy to troubleshoot and where focus should concentrate. Measure crop or trim mark distances throughout the roll because you say a print begins fine until later, it’s not.

Only if you find the time, maybe explain exactly how the auto and manual adjustments were performed,

Good luck.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I recommend you outsource the blue panel file as a sample for yourself and any technician or salesperson to evaluate. If you purchased the so-called “demo” from a dealer, have them print the file and / or send the file to Epson. They should entertain that more an opportunity than a challenge. The exercise is almost guaranteed to be an eye-opener to all parties.

Of matters that are in your control, know that banding is primarily the fault of media feed adjustment / tension, uni-directional / bi-directional head alignment, nozzles, head height, and heater settings in that order. (Discounting operator errors using incorrect setups or media loading troubles and media faults such as sticky coating, physical damage, old age, etc.)

Such a consistent banding pattern is not indicative of environmental or static troubles. The first two points above are easy to troubleshoot and where focus should concentrate. Measure crop or trim mark distances throughout the roll because you say a print begins fine until later, it’s not.

Only if you find the time, maybe explain exactly how the auto and manual adjustments were performed,

Good luck.

I think you're missing the point. He said nozels are dropping out... None of what you said addresses that.

 

[jfiscus]

Nozzles dropping out are usually caused (here) by the printer needing cleaned. If you're cleaning the head and caps correctly and keeping your maintenance kits replaced correctly this shouldn't be an issue.
After you sort that out, which by the way is NOT causing the lawnmower looking banding, it would cause "strip" banding where you notice a pixel missing every pass then you can move on to the other issue.

1st, on the printer itself, is a material profile you have to set up.
Have it calibrate the feed/etc correctly for the primary material you intend to use. Be sure if it isn't a banner or super thick material that you're set to low head height on that material setting.
Heat should not cause banding issues, we keep our preheaters and platen heaters pretty much off or around 100 degrees, the post-heater we keep pretty hot.

After that, it moves on to your material profile itself on/in the RIP. You might be using a lighter amount of ink than you should be and that's why you're seeing banding.

It looks like ink starvation, which we DO occasionally see in blues here on 4 pass setting on our S60600s.
We usually run everything on 6-pass to ensure no banding, except for banners or other things where banding wouldn't be an issue.

 

[ColorCrest]

I think you're missing the point. He said nozels are dropping out... None of what you said addresses that.

I did mention nozzles as the third suspect but the first two carry much more weight here. The pattern is what's telling however, inkjet machines often suffer more than one area of trouble.