Screw you 3M.

[signage]

They aren't low balling anything. They manufacture the product, and then sell it for next to nothing because they pay next to nothing.

You are the one saying they are offering the job below what you can, Isn't this low balling?

You are also saying they are the one dictating the amount the installer can charge, again isn't their price low balling what you normally charge? Isn't that low balling again!

These are you words from earlier posts.

 

[rjssigns]

For those of you using Knifeless Tape they just partnered/got bought by 3M.
Thought you'd like to know.

Wrapcut would be the alternative I imagine.

 

[ucmj22]

For those of you using Knifeless Tape they just partnered/got bought by 3M.
Thought you'd like to know.

Wrapcut would be the alternative I imagine.

I already got my free roll of wrap cut. it is a different product, but gets the job done.

 

[HulkSmash]

You are the one saying they are offering the job below what you can, Isn't this low balling?

You are also saying they are the one dictating the amount the installer can charge, again isn't their price low balling what you normally charge? Isn't that low balling again!

These are you words from earlier posts.

Sorry, Let me break it down for people who take longer to catch on to things.

to me, it's low balling.
to them, it's normal pricing. They don't feel it's cheap because they pay next to nothing for it.
This causes the industry to become be devalued.
Seriously, you have no idea what you're talking about.

now if 3m started printing on cups, and fanny packs then you'd be mad because that's your side of this business.

 

[Gino]

Color..... could it be that Brian is just saying with the size of 3M compared to almost anyone else in the world.... even if you combine many together, they're just showing their muscle ??

Really, how different is being so large and capable that you do whatever you want and think of small things like hurting small companies is just collateral of doing business.

There's been a time or two.... actually many times, I've heard people on this very forum threaten to do things for free, just to put a competitor out of business. I've heard people say, they'd do it for cost until the shop across the street closes their door. In fact, I've heard you say it on occasion. I've said it, also.... and so have many others here. We all do it. It's just the amount of commas before the decimal point that makes the difference.

When someone does something one doesn't like, if that one is the bigger guy, one will always stretch their muscles. It's not just a capitalistic thing.... it's survival of the strongest/fittest. In business, nothing is fair and everything is fair game. You either have to take it and roll with the punches or do something to counter it. However, if you have a plan and decide to take this on yourself, you're not allowing anyone else in on your party.

Perhaps you've already developed a backroom committee to figure this whole thing out.... and in that case I commend you, but if not, as others have expressed, what are you trying to accomplish ?? Some of us would like to help and if we don't completely understand, it's not our fault if we're not doing the volume you are doing. Therefore, we're missing the point because like 3M, you're not helping us.

 

[John L]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuKygW4PErU

 

[Marlene]

I believe the sentiment is valid. When they are selling you product through a distributor to sell at the retail level, and also selling directly to the consumer that you are trying to sell their product to, its pretty shady. why should I purchase a product from a manufacturer that competes for my clients at the retail level with the benefit of removing 2 levels of distribution.

the above, I think, sums up the issue. no sign shop can sell at the same price and compete when your competition is the same people you buy your material from. what if this happened with the Omega board or Gerber? how could any of sell anything if the company that makes it is our competition?

PS, has this thread surpassed the corn dog one for views?

 

[HulkSmash]

Color..... could it be that Brian is just saying with the size of 3M compared to almost anyone else in the world.... even if you combine many together, they're just showing their muscle ??

Really, how different is being so large and capable that you do whatever you want and think of small things like hurting small companies is just collateral of doing business.

There's been a time or two.... actually many times, I've heard people on this very forum threaten to do things for free, just to put a competitor out of business. I've heard people say, they'd do it for cost until the shop across the street closes their door. In fact, I've heard you say it on occasion. I've said it, also.... and so have many others here. We all do it. It's just the amount of commas before the decimal point that makes the difference.

When someone does something one doesn't like, if that one is the bigger guy, one will always stretch their muscles. It's not just a capitalistic thing.... it's survival of the strongest/fittest. In business, nothing is fair and everything is fair game. You either have to take it and roll with the punches or do something to counter it. However, if you have a plan and decide to take this on yourself, you're not allowing anyone else in on your party.

Perhaps you've already developed a backroom committee to figure this whole thing out.... and in that case I commend you, but if not, as others have expressed, what are you trying to accomplish ?? Some of us would like to help and if we don't completely understand, it's not our fault if we're not doing the volume you are doing. Therefore, we're missing the point because like 3M, you're not helping us.

Plans have been made Gino, trust me. This has nothing to do with volume. This has nothing to do with us fighting with each other. This is me and many other showing what is being done to our industry. Seriously i'd like to stay focused on the matter at hand. 3M is our competition and is devastating our industry. When someone like Brian starts nit picking at small words like low balling, and "stealing" they're really stretching on something they know nothing about. I'm trying to show the bigger picture, and show the problem.

Yes it's really annoying that i can't outbid 3m in my wraps. But the worse part of this all is that in the long run-- our industry will be cheapened by this. Not just for companies who wrap. They do everything that has to do with vehicle graphics.

This is more of getting the word out type of thing. This is not me saying


WE MUST SHUT THEM DOWN GRRRRRRRRRRRRR


but more of a .. hey they're doing this..... we can't support it

 

[CES020]

Just for fun, how much fun would it be to walk into the dealers, tell them your accountant told you that you have to spend some money, so you want to upgrade all your shop trucks. Get them nice and excited about it all. We all know how honest car salesmen are.....

Just before it gets to the point of no return, ask if they sell the Original Wraps program. When they tell you they do (excitedly, for sure), you can tell them you don't do business with people that offer that program because it undercuts your business. Stroll out the door.

Won't take too many of those to freak out the sales manager. Losing fleet sales would put them in full panic mode.

I'd love to have some video of that happening and the look on their faces when one walks out.

 

[Gino]

Marlene, I see that, but what's the difference when we all hand-painted everything and the computers came along and we paid exorbitant amounts of money and kept the Gerbers and ANAgraphs alive and when they finally sold to every sign shop and hack around.... they went to our end users ??

I paid for my first Gerber Sprint System... $28,000 plus vinyls and fonts of another $3,000. I then got two ANAgraph system at $38,000 each. This is all back in the 80's. We had a small fortune invested, but we had a nice customer base and it was quickly paid off. Next, the local hospital had one, a car dealership had one, then beer distributors had them and it wasn't near what I had paid to get my initial computers.

In business, there's always gonna be someone who wants what you have or are striving for in your life. Big business usually wins out but it's called capitalism and it works pretty dang good. Sometimes, if you wait long enough, karma will help you, but it's much easier to get with the plan and see how you can either fit in or change it to your game plan. Either way, let us know what we can do to help.

In saying all of this.... I'm in no way suggesting or agreeing what they're doing is right or moral, it's just business. I know you're young. Just get used to it, cause this ain't gonna be your only hurdle in business..... or any other business. It's always a struggle, even for the guys at the top.

 

[Msrae]

Marlene, I see that, but what's the difference when we all hand-painted everything and the computers came along and we paid exorbitant amounts of money and kept the Gerbers and ANAgraphs alive and when they finally sold to every sign shop and hack around.... they went to our end users ??

I paid for my first Gerber Sprint System... $28,000 plus vinyls and fonts of another $3,000. I then got two ANAgraph system at $38,000 each. This is all back in the 80's. We had a small fortune invested, but we had a nice customer base and it was quickly paid off. Next, the local hospital had one, a car dealership had one, then beer distributors had them and it wasn't near what I had paid to get my initial computers.

In business, there's always gonna be someone who wants what you have or are striving for in your life. Big business usually wins out but it's called capitalism and it works pretty dang good. Sometimes, if you wait long enough, karma will help you, but it's much easier to get with the plan and see how you can either fit in or change it to your game plan. Either way, let us know what we can do to help.

In saying all of this.... I'm in no way suggesting or agreeing what they're doing is right or moral, it's just business. I know you're young. Just get used to it, cause this ain't gonna be your only hurdle in business..... or any other business. It's always a struggle, even for the guys at the top.

 

[qmr55]

Just for fun, how much fun would it be to walk into the dealers, tell them your accountant told you that you have to spend some money, so you want to upgrade all your shop trucks. Get them nice and excited about it all. We all know how honest car salesmen are.....

Just before it gets to the point of no return, ask if they sell the Original Wraps program. When they tell you they do (excitedly, for sure), you can tell them you don't do business with people that offer that program because it undercuts your business. Stroll out the door.

Won't take too many of those to freak out the sales manager. Losing fleet sales would put them in full panic mode.

I'd love to have some video of that happening and the look on their faces when one walks out.

I'm doing this.

 

[HulkSmash]

I'm doing this.

lies

 

[qmr55]

lies

Don't doubt me. It's happening.

 

[3M Graphics]

My name is Bill Brown, I’m a global business development manager for 3M Commercial Graphics. I'm here to address some of your ongoing questions and concerns about the 3M Original Wraps Commercial Fleet Program.

As many of you know, we have a large network of endorsed installers, but so far we’ve worked with only a few printers who meet automotive OEM warranty requirements. We’re developing and refining the program so that the processes, quality control and consistency the OEMs want can include more printers that dealerships will be able to choose from. At the end of the day, 3M carries the warranty for the OEM graphics programs, so we need some way to ensure quality control. It’s taking time.

As far as competing against our customers- well contrary to what some have stated-- we don’t print or install graphics. We offer technology, consulting and a network of printers to the OEMs. As far as pricing goes, the OEMs provide the dealerships with MSRP pricing guidance for graphics and installation for a base level of graphics. They wouldn’t be able to launch a national program without market pricing.

Our main goal is to build the industry and help develop business for our printer and installer network. We want to do this while still giving OEMs an easy way to offer graphics as an accessory on commercial vans so they can generate additional revenues.

To help with communication we’ll continue to update the FAQs on our webpage go.3m.com/3MOriginalWrapsFAQs. If you’re interested in participating, please contact your local 3M rep or 3M Distributor. We’re listening and working to broaden the program.

 

[HulkSmash]

My name is Bill Brown, I’m a global business development manager for 3M Commercial Graphics. I'm here to address some of your ongoing questions and concerns about the 3M Original Wraps Commercial Fleet Program.

As many of you know, we have a large network of endorsed installers, but so far we’ve worked with only a few printers who meet automotive OEM warranty requirements. We’re developing and refining the program so that the processes, quality control and consistency the OEMs want can include more printers that dealerships will be able to choose from. At the end of the day, 3M carries the warranty for the OEM graphics programs, so we need some way to ensure quality control. It’s taking time.

As far as competing against our customers- well contrary to what some have stated-- we don’t print or install graphics. We offer technology, consulting and a network of printers to the OEMs. As far as pricing goes, the OEMs provide the dealerships with MSRP pricing guidance for graphics and installation for a base level of graphics. They wouldn’t be able to launch a national program without market pricing.

Our main goal is to build the industry and help develop business for our printer and installer network. We want to do this while still giving OEMs an easy way to offer graphics as an accessory on commercial vans so they can generate additional revenues.

To help with communication we’ll continue to update the FAQs on our webpage go.3m.com/3MOriginalWrapsFAQs. If you’re interested in participating, please contact your local 3M rep or 3M Distributor. We’re listening and working to broaden the program.

Hey Bill Brown,
Once again all questions have been dodged, & once again you deny any printing. I know for a fact your lakewood, CO office prints graphics. That office is owned by original wraps, who is then owned by 3M. Do you think we're that daft? I can't really comprehend why you deny this. I know that sometimes that office gets overloaded so you outsource to an un named company which we all already know. Let's be honest we all know they use liquid lamination for their wraps which means they default any print regiments you hold over them. So as for you trying to hold a "strict printing or quality control" is all down the drain.

As for contacting my local 3m rep. He doesn't care about my company, he hasn't been here in 3 years. As for my rep in st pauls. She has cut all contact with me and won't even talk to me anymore, i get 0 return calls. My local grimco rep told me that 3m won't even contact him back about my calling.

You say market pricing? Your company made up these pricing lines. If you think a dollar a sqft is anywhere close to market value, you need to hire new researchers.

You set out to my customers, and use your company to print, and your chosen installer who has paid you to be certified to do the wrap. Which means you IN TURN are directly my competitor.

I talked to a person at your original wraps location who assured me you print there. If you want a name feel free to call me..I would seriously love to have a conversation with you off of all this... Seriously a civilized one.
3M refuses to contact me, let's see if you can.

 

[3M Graphics]

Original Wraps was originally located in Lakewood, CO. When we acquired the company, they had already moved to Golden, CO. OW did a minimal amount of graphic printing, but after we acquired the company we shut down all printing.

To confirm again, we do not print. We utilize our graphic manufacture network who are able to meet the specifications of the Automotive OEM Program.

We know 3M has not contacted you lately, but if you are interested in a factual conversation about the program, I will make sure someone from 3M calls you.

 

[HulkSmash]

Original Wraps was originally located in Lakewood, CO. When we acquired the company, they had already moved to Golden, CO. OW did a minimal amount of graphic printing, but after we acquired the company we shut down all printing.

To confirm again, we do not print. We utilize our graphic manufacture network who are able to meet the specifications of the Automotive OEM Program.

We know 3M has not contacted you lately, but if you are interested in a factual conversation about the program, I will make sure someone from 3M calls you.

Hey Bill,
I actually like you -- you respond. Very good. So are you telling me that 3M original wraps does literally ZERO printing? and that all your printing is outsourced to a printer of your choice?

How about you contact me since you seem to have all the answers? I would love to talk to you, or tom black, or jason? How about all 3?

Last time you had a rep contact that knew nothing.

 

[HulkSmash]

I'm just asking because the guy who runs original wraps over there, Alex, told me you guys do indeed do printing in house, and this was about 3 weeks ago. The signature in his email is operations manager, so i believe him.

So before you guys tell me stories, make sure your whole company has the same story.

 

[3M Graphics]

Thanks, ColoradoSigns -- that's what I'm here for.

Just to clarify; the 3M Original Wraps Golden facility does have a printer and prints only for testing and prototyping reasons. We don't do any printing for the market or for resale.

I'll have a knowledgeable person contact you within a day.