Starting a print business

[bthcc]

Hi,
I manage a Business Center in a convention center. We outsource our poster printing orders to a Print shop. We are researching the feasibility of printing the posters in house. The poster orders we receive are normally 48"x48", semi-gloss. I am hoping this forum can answer some of my questions as I have no knowledge or experience in this field.
What would the cost be to purchase the equipment needed to print posters (48"x48") at a quality equal to or better than a commercial print shop?
How big are these printers?
What type of consumable are needed?
What software is required?
How many staff are needed and what type of skillset or experience are required to operate a successful poster printing operation?
I'd appreciate it if you can answer these questions and any advice that I should be aware of.
Thanks!

 

[Boudica]

Welcome to the forum, and, good luck. Those are all loaded questions....

 

[Gino]

Aloha.

No offense, but you really don't belong here. Nobody here really wants to help you to stop using your local sign shops. That's cutting our own throats. I know 3 signs shops in Hawaii. All but one had to go out of business because of people doing what you're doing. The one was a very successful shop for years. I'm sure that's not your intent, but it is what you're doing, by taking food off their table(s).

If you can't negotiate better prices with your vendors, how do you expect to run a sideline business ?? Getting materials over there from the mainland can become expensive. Also getting the supplies to run your machines, too.


Good luck..............

 

[The Big Squeegee]

Good luck with that.

 

[bthcc]

Aloha.

No offense, but you really don't belong here. Nobody here really wants to help you to stop using your local sign shops. That's cutting our own throats. I know 3 signs shops in Hawaii. All but one had to go out of business because of people doing what you're doing. The one was a very successful shop for years. I'm sure that's not your intent, but it is what you're doing, by taking food off their table(s).

If you can't negotiate better prices with your vendors, how do you expect to run a sideline business ?? Getting materials over there from the mainland can become expensive. Also getting the supplies to run your machines, too.


Good luck..............

Gino, thanks for your reply. I believe my research will prove that it isn't feasible to do it in-house. I just need the numbers to back it up.

 

[Gino]

There are no specific numbers for you. You'll hafta learn on your own and research what machines will do what you need or want. We can't decide that for you, even if youn were a legit sign company. You need to take files to the distributors and have them rip and print your files, not their provided files. Til you get all that's needed to do it properly... you'll have a bundle invested and a huge learning curve til you learn to use it.

You have your homework laid out ahead of you.

 

[Boudica]

I tend to agree with Gino. This is a sign forum filled with folks that do a lot more than posters.
That said... The membership to this forum are loose, so you never know, there might be more peeps like you out there, and may have some advice.
But... Even then, there are real crackpots here... So take any advice with a grain of salt. Be ware of the hobby crew...

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I don't think it will pencil out if all you're going to do is bring poster printing in house. They are so cheap to print that it really doesn't make sense

 

[Sindex Printing]

Hi,
I manage a Business Center in a convention center. We outsource our poster printing orders to a Print shop. We are researching the feasibility of printing the posters in house. The poster orders we receive are normally 48"x48", semi-gloss. I am hoping this forum can answer some of my questions as I have no knowledge or experience in this field.
What would the cost be to purchase the equipment needed to print posters (48"x48") at a quality equal to or better than a commercial print shop?
How big are these printers?
What type of consumable are needed?
What software is required?
How many staff are needed and what type of skillset or experience are required to operate a successful poster printing operation?
I'd appreciate it if you can answer these questions and any advice that I should be aware of.
Thanks!

Equipment cost is hard to pin point. You can go with used and get into a printer cheap and have the problems of when you need service is finding a good and trustworthy tech if you can't fix it. Or you can go new and get an initial training with the purchase. I started in the large format and signage with a 12k investment almost 10 years ago with a Canon ipf8400 and extra rolls of material. I was a very good solution for me at the time and a very low risk financially when it was financed over 5 years.

Quality to a commercial shop depends on a lot of factors. Material quality, printer maintenance, skill set of user, quality of supplied files, and experience if you are trying to compete with people that print high quality and high volumes with little to no errors every day.

The size of the printers are not the only issue to consider. One is the room required behind and in front of the printer. Then an area for finishing.

Consumables would be extra ink on hand a common replacement parts. This will vary depending on equipment.

Software would be depending on the printer you choose and if it comes with software.

For a good operator plan on paying on the higher end of the local scale and consider the added cost involved with an employee.

We all have had to start somewhere and at some point. Every business has an expiration date on it no matter what anyone says. To run a successful operation you have to be willing to have plans of growth and plans if your original plan don't work.

I would figure as a minimum of 20k going cheap and doing a lot of research on everything plus the cost of an employee.

 

[FireSprint.com]

So first off, we can print stuff like this for you:

Poster Boards, Poster Paper, Foam Board, Snap Frame Inserts

Posters made from materials such as foam board, poster paper, PVC or vinyl. Digitally printed in full color. Various shapes and sizes available.

www.firesprint.com

But if I am reading your post correctly, doesn't sound like you need a UV, Latex or Solvent printer like we use in the sign business. You might be able to get away with an aqueous printer for indoor posters. These are much less expensive and easier to run. Outsource the outdoor work, and run quick one off posters inhouse.

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/mlp/large-format-printers

 

[JamesLam]

It sounds liker you already have relationships in place, so why not try to expand on those? Could be a win-win.

 

[rjssigns]

OP is already asking the wrong questions. It is not how much this or that costs or how big something is.
Gotta start with basic stuff:
Does anybody in the organization have any design experience?
Can they run Adobe Illustrator or Photoshop?
Do you even have the software? Are you willing to spend the subscription costs?
Are they familiar with RIP programs?
Do they know or are willing to learn how to run and maintain a printer? It ain't point and shoot like the dealers will tell you.
Are they familiar with finishing operations like trimming or laminating?

Don't laugh at the trimming part. You can give some folks the best tools in the world and the print will look like a beaver with one tooth got after it.

To the point: Can your organization shoulder the expense of a full time person to do nothing but create posters and tend to the printing, finishing and mounting?

 

[hybriddesign]

Hi, I sent you a pm. I’m local (assuming you’re in Honolulu) and might be able to at least point you in the right direction. You could take a look at our printers and see what you’d need size wise. As others mentioned this forum is more for sign businesses versus customers and you’re kind of in the middle so it’s tough. If the only thing you’re doing is the 4x4 posters it might make sense but it would likely still take years to break even and if you like your outsourcing partner that route is just so much easier. Large printers also do not like to sit idle. The less they print the more problems you tend to have so if you’re only printing once a week or something opening your own equipment might not make sense

 

[Print1]

I offer consulting, repair and maintenance on a wide variety of print industry machines. I travel all over thr works providing my services to folks. I have a trip to Pearl Harbor coming up in a few weeks. I’d be happy to stop by

 

[Medina Signs]

Some points that come to mind -

The associated expenses that come with printing ie. - maintenance, medias with use by dates and other consumables. The cost to maintain software, employees...
A commercial business can spread those cost over all of his jobs, in other words, keeping the ship moving daily, weekly, monthly, yearly... you get the idea. It all averages out to hopefully a profitable scenario.

Going "in house" may appear to save you money at first, but over an annual period of time, you may see your department losing money unless you start jobbing for a multitude of other departments or customers. With that, you will experience deadlines and if you can't make the deadlines, your rep will be bad and your shop will sit idle.

Think it out, you already have a full time job. It would seem to me that the pressure you would be setting up for yourself would be overwhelming.

Just because your supplier may make it look easy doesn't make it so.

 

[JamesLam]

Ya know, the more I think about this the more irked I become. There are few things worse then working your tail off and then somebody starts asking a bunch of questions so they can basically run you out of town. This has happened to me a few times but in the end the fellows & dames who thought I would just roll up the carpet and bugger off end up sitting with a lot of used equipment going for fire-sale prices.. I'm sure it's happened to many of the posters in this thread as well. As upfront as it may seem to be somewhat transparent, at the end of the day someone is going to lose out. Do not get me wrong, competition is good in so many ways. But this fellow does not seem to be bringing anything to the table.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Ya know, the more I think about this the more irked I become. There are few things worse then working your tail off and then somebody starts asking a bunch of questions so they can basically run you out of town. This has happened to me a few times but in the end the fellows & dames who thought I would just roll up the carpet and bugger off end up sitting with a lot of used equipment going for fire-sale prices.. I'm sure it's happened to many of the posters in this thread as well. As upfront as it may seem to be somewhat transparent, at the end of the day someone is going to lose out. Do not get me wrong, competition is good in so many ways. But this fellow does not seem to be bringing anything to the table.

and they muddy up many relationships that you worked hard to build with over promising and under charging, often times making you look like a jackass. Sure it works itself out but it still dents your door.

 

[brycesteiner]

Anyone can do it. You just need a lot of dedication and willingness to learn. The first thing to do is apprentice in a real shop for about 5 years. Find out if it's for you. Then you can figure out if you not only like the work but also can manage a business with working 80 hours per week. Then if you decide you need people to help out - can you train them, will they even show up?
Anyhow, you can do it but the people who are experienced have put their life into it and really aren't charging enough for the skills they have earned through their education, sweat and paper cuts in their hands.

 

[Oridenzy]

I started out using basic equipment and slowly built up from there. What really helped me stay organized and save time was checking out tools for startups and small businesses—it made stuff like quoting jobs, tracking orders, and handling customer info way easier. Less time stressing over paperwork meant more time actually printing and growing.

 

[kcollinsdesign]

I figure it will cost about $150,000 annually to do what you are suggesting (initial equipment purchase depreciation, one full time employee, overhead, and supplies). 48" x 48" gloss coated printed posters (low ply cardboard or heavy paper stock) can be purchased from wholesale printers from anywhere from $0.50 to $2.50 a square foot. Shipping might add 10% to the cost. That's a little over 1100 posters a day on the cheap side, and around 220 a day on the more expensive side. Large commercial printers with huge presses and industrial scale material handing capabilities can do those numbers. Your $30,000 dollar printer and a novice employee will not be able to produce those numbers at anywhere near the market price. My guess is that you will have to sell your finished product at around $2.50 to $6.50/sq. ft. just to break even (three to five times market value), and to be prepared to print, cut, and handle anywhere from 100 to 300 posters a day.

If you have demand to hit those numbers (and customers ignorant enough to pay those prices), I'd say it might be worth considering it. I would want to see triple those forecast numbers and signed contracts to purchase at those prices before I lifted a finger! And I probably still wouldn't do it.

The sign industry has changed. Anybody with a cell phone can order signs from wholesalers and have them drop shipped to their clients (that includes your competitors AND your clients). Designs can be rendered and composed using AI in seconds; nobody has to be an artist or be able to draw even a straight line. AI can organize your books and pay your bills. All you need to do is make sure everything is plugged in, sweep the floors and clean the toilet. Before long it will be common practice for people who need signs to talk to their phone and their signs will show up in a couple days rolled in a tube ready to install. The surest way to make money (for now) is installation and electrical sign maintenance and repair services (especially aerial and excavating). But even that will not last long; everything you need will be available from automated distribution centers and delivered using self-driving vehicles. What would be the purpose of a physical sign?