Summa F1612

[Rickey J]

I just recently purchased a used Summa F1612. I just got it installed with a three phase rotary converter and and it’s not powering up. We got power to the machine breakers and the USB hub in the machine. It doesn’t seem like we are getting power to the power supplies. Can someone point me in the right direction in what to check?
Thank you.


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[netsol]

Was the "add-a-phase" properly installed?
Phase difference can be tricky for people who don't understand it (don't be offended)

 

[Rickey J]

We had a AD15 American Rotary phase converter installed by an electrician. I am pretty sure it was properly installed.


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[CanuckSigns]

We have 3 phase in our building already, but I remember our electrician saying something about it being a strange wiring configuration and needing to special order in the wire by the foot as it wasn't common, something about 3 phase not normally being grounded or something, I can't remember.

I remember reading the electrical specs to our electrician over the phone and him asking me to double check as it seemed strange to him, might want to double check.

 

[Rickey J]

Yes, I will double check. Also, if anyone had a wiring diagram what would be great. I am hoping it’s just the wiring going to the machine.


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[edcooleyar]

Did you have a trained F1612 technician install the machine and connect the power? I know the machine needs three hots, a neutral and a ground.

Here is the three phase wiring if that helps

 

[edcooleyar]

Pretty sure this is the vacuum pump connection

 

[netsol]

Can you post the model of your rotary convertor?
We need to match the specs of your convertor to the voltage supplied from circuit breaker panel.
Verify output of the device & make sure the voltage and phase of the output matches the requiremets of the summa.

Have you ever done anything like this before?
Do you have a good meter to test with?
Do you have enough experience that you can do this without getting a painful and dangerous shock?

Send me the exact model of the convertor AND the summa and i will read through the documentation and see if i can talk you through this remotely.

MY GUESS WOULD BE the specs of the convertor and the summa do not match .

Some of the convertors are quite versatile and can provide a wide range of voltages and some are "one trick ponies" which need to be a perfect match

 

[123sticker]

As far as I know, the summa uses the 3 phases only for the Vacuum pump BUT the rest of the electronics run on 220 Volts (or maybe on 110 volts when differently converted).
That usually is taken from 1 phase and NULL. Do you have that connected? When the summa doesn't start up at all, it sounds like the main electronics (that run on single phase) don't get their power.
In the picture below you see my connections. red = 3phase (between the phases is 400 volts) and green is null. Between NULL and Phase (anyt one of them) is 220 volts. You see the power units (silver boxes) are connected through the 220 volt.

And for the heavy users of the F1612 that know the problem of burned out tool controllers (toolslot not available anymore) ask me! I learned how to repair instead of completly change the head board.

 

[netsol]

123sticker, you see the difficulties in troubleshooting this kind of thing remotely

Could be we have 110 reaching. A control circuit looking for 220

Could be we have 208 coming out of the convertor & a machine wanting 240

i will assume he never saw this machine operating when it was acquired. So, numerous other possibilities

It could be worse (it could be one of the horrid new hp's!)

 

[netsol]

I dont want to start another troublesome thread.
My gripe with hp is you practically need an electrician on staff (and perhaps a power engineer) to get the new machines up and running. FROM THE THREADS I HAVE PARTICIPATED IN, HP SERMS TO BE LITTLE OR NO HELP

not a complaint about quality of the machines

 

[Rickey J]

What I have for power is single phase 240 going into phase converter (American Rotary AD15) recommended by Summa. From the converter we have four wires. The voltage coming from the converter is as follows. 245v,245v,260v and a ground. From the little information I have received it does not need a neutral in this configuration. But please let me know if I am wrong.
Thank you to everyone helping me with this. I really appreciate it.


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[Notarealsignguy]

I'm no electrician but you should have the ad15 going into a sub panel then out to the machine. I'm pretty sure you'd need a neutral as well as there is probably 120v control voltage. I'm just trying to recall how we have our converter setup but I think we have a separate 120 breaker but don't exactly remember. You can probably get the high leg more even too, call American rotary and they will walk you through the adjustments. You really should have an electrician that's familiar with 3 phase do your hookup.

 

[Rickey J]

Here is a photo of my setup.

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[netsol]

all 3 voltages should be the same, why is 1 15v higher?

there are probably "local voltage" jumpers to adjust the stepdown to your 115 or 220 control voltage.

full disclosure, i have NEVER TOUCHED an f1612 but have connected tons of 3 phase equipment.
there is normally a multitap to move and adjust the voltage coming out (208, 220, 240, etc)

you may be tripping an over voltage protect of some sort

 

[Rickey J]

Here is what I am getting on my voltage.

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[netsol]

looking at the summa, you need to have a 5v powersupply, 12 v and probably 24v all fed by most likely a 110 vac primary

 

[netsol]

W is ground
the other 3 should read identically to w (as well as identically from one to the other, but perhaps not the same value as measuring to w

those voltages suggest to me that one leg is dead. the 120v is probably just some sort of backfeed

i am at a client now, and kind of busy. i will download the ad15 manual later today and hopefully have a better understanding. (and better suggestions)

 

[CanuckSigns]

Here is a photo of my setup.

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You are missing your neutral connection going into the machine, I believe that was the odd setup my electrician was talking about, most 3 phase setups have 3 live wires and a ground, the summa needs 3 live, 1 neutral and 1 ground. I'll take a pic of the wiring going into my summa next week.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Attached is the site prep guide from summa, hopefully this helps.