Thoughts on SELLING OUT!

[klemgraphics]

Not sure what I would do, but I do know that a local shop that I used to do business with before I started did this very thing. That was over 10 years ago and they are still going strong as far as I know. Myself I would think all the headaches would still be there and I wouldn't have the flexibility I do now.

 

[Billct2]

That's what I thought, sounds some people have the idea your selling the shop and becoming it's employee. I know several people who are involved with inhouse production
and it's not a bad gig, not trouble free, but it's a different set of issues than running your own shop. I think rthe biggest adjustment is not being the boss anymore.
Definately worth consideration.

 

[Gino]

I'd think about it....... v-e-r-y carefully.

A few things that have happened to me over the years.


A very good customer of mine had a nice -in-house sign shop. They did a ton of work and also lots of gradis work for other charitable companies. Their sign shop had everything. Well, I used to do the overflow work that they couldn't handle. This is all long before computers....all hand painted stuff. After about a year or so, they wanted me to come work for them and I was allowed to keep my own accounts yet, but their work would have to come first. I was only in business for myself for a short time and having a weekly paycheck, benefits, vacation and pension sure looked nice. My parents at the time said I was nuts f I didn't take it. Many friends and others said the same thing. Well, I mulled it over for a few weeks and finally turned it down for many reasons, which at the time didn't make sense to anyone else. Outcome was.... about five or so years later, the company was bought out by someone else and they did away with the entire sign department and they were all out of a job... except me. Guess where they continued to get their signs from.........

A very good friend, old friend and now employee of ours had his own business. In fact, it was his grandfather's business, then his Dad's and then he got it. After his father passed away, he merged with a friend of his.... and they did quite well, except, neither of them were very business minded and they foundered. A big business guy bought in and became a third silent partner and made them an offer exactly like yours. He gave them anything they wanted and let them alone to do their thing. This went on for about two or three years. They did all of his work for free and the other billing went through his office. What they didn't know was..... he literally took full control of the business and things started missing like pay checks, tools and somehow the entire customer list was unavailable to them. That's when they started asking questions and in the fine print on various pages where they initialed, dated and signed.... was the part that they were actually employees and he was closing down the shop and they couldn't take anything along with them. He weaseled everything away and they left with nothing.... not even the customers that they brought in. The sad part was.... they had the chance to know this and just took everything by mouth to be 100% accurate. Wrong.

I know another guy that had a shop and moved down south somewhere to take on a job with a sign company and after he moved everything down, including his family and all.... they said they no longer needed him.

Some years ago, a guy who was actually over-qualified for our needs came in to our shop and asked for a job. I told him his resume' was quite impressive and I didn't think I could pay him his worth. He said, that's Okay, anything is better than nothing. Well, it is for him, until he finds someone that is willing to pay him more than me. He'll be on his way in a snap. His story was.... he was brought in from across the country to work for a company and could do everything his way. He too, moved his family across the country set up digs, bought a house... the whole nine yards. The job he started on with this company took about 7 or 8 months to complete. What this guy didn't know was.... the owner had someone following his every move, learning everything they could about this guy and how he did things. They took extensive notes and when the job was over.... so was he. Now, the guy that took his place was a friend of mine and I learned about this part much later. He couldn't do what the other guy did and the owner got so mad at him.... the guy quit before he got fired and took all of his notes with him.

I guess what I'm saying is.... no matter how good the deal looks, read it carefully, ask questions and then read it again... then have a legal eye look at it. I know sometimes a move is good and can be the best thing you ever do, but it can also backfire on you and cause great pain and loss. Make sure you have a backup plan... even if you can start a business outside your non-compete zone.... or have a friend you could go work for in case you're being used.

Just be careful my friend........​

 

[TheSnowman]

This situation has crossed my mind so many times. When things suck, or even when they don't, it can be so easy to think that we'd like to just have a set work schedule, good benefits, and collect a paycheck each week, but still, at the end of that week, someone else employs you.

I may be dead with no work a couple times in the year, but I wake up and say, ya know what, I still have a job, and I still can do whatever I need/want to do, when I need to do it. I think the only reason right now that I would probably sell out, is if I had another unrelated job offer, that I wasn't attached to this in anyway, shape, or form.

However, not actually having an offer dangled in front of me...and if I were in your shoes...if a lawyer looks at it, and it's all good...it may be an awesome deal for you!

 

[HulkSmash]

Heath,
Some things you want to consider.

A. Will you make the same, close to or more, than what you're making on your own?

B. Be prepared to act like the owner of a business even though you're not. I bet they'll be running you into the ground, use and abuse you as much as they can.

So if the benifits are greater than go for it. But if you're getting less, and possibly will work more then, you should think about it a bit more.

Good luck

-Adam

 

[Mosh]

If that is all the equipment you have I can't see why they just wouldn't buy new. A printer, lamintator and a saw isn't what I would call a "shop"...just my 2 cents.

 

[BigfishDM]

I wouldnt do it! Be your own boss ad keep all the control. Not sure if its the right thing to do but I have had the same situation happen to me and it didnt work out like I thought it would. Good luck either way

 

[BALLPARK]

I had a buddy that sold his sign business to his top client. The client is one of the largest auto dealerships on the east coast. They also own a Race Track, Dragway, and Real Estate Agency along with a few other smaller companies so they kept him busy year round with signage.

He stayed with them for about 5 years before leaving them to reopen a sign company. He got great value for his equipment and inventory. Then the dealership dropped about 250K - 300K on new equipment, supplies, tools, etc... He was very happy for 5 years b/c he had pretty much an endless budget with all the tools and equipment he wanted. His salary was more than most small to mid size sign company owners could make during a year.

It also helped that his client was simply put...a great man. He is very generous and a brilliant business man! He is one of my favorite business owners that I know of today.

My advice...

1) Salary - Get what you want for the salary or do not do it. You will be unhappy after the first year if you do not do this.

2) Contract - Get a contract for employment 3-5 years. Then at the end of the contract you can either resign or leave for a new adventure.

3) Non-Compete Clauses - Make sure that if you leave from either being fired or the end of the contract you have the ability to re-open in the same city.

4) Side / Weekend Projects - He was not allowed to do any side projects. But I would try everything in the world to setup a wholesale pricing plan that allows you to make a few extra thousand ONLY working on weekends.

5) SAVE - Chances are you will not stay with this company for the rest of your working days. It would be very smart to put make about 15% - 20% of your weekly salary to go towards your next sign shop.

My buddy left and still has them as his top client...lol. Maybe it can work for you as well.

GL and hope it works out well for you!!!

 

[m_s_p]

Another option could be that your client totally buys into the idea of having an internal signage and design operation and they find someone else to run it. I'm sure they could put out an ad in a few surrounding states and find someone with similar design experience and a second with similar production experience.

If you don't get bought out you may have to replace this client in the long run anyway. Just a thought.

 

[petrosgraphics]

to save yourself a bit of anxiety, see a lawyer... you either know one or get one from

your customer list......

will you be able to keep your company name...

make sure you have a complete customer list..keep this...

non- compete clauses, contacts with old customers, employment time frame...

a few hours with a lawyer, can not hurt, it may just make it a little less painful..

 

[deegrafix]

I went for this type of offer in '94 and it worked out very well for me for 7 years. I put in a lot of hours, (nothing new there!) but was paid time and a half for overtime. Never had to worry about buying materials or getting deposits, having a slow week, paying for overhead, etc. I collected my check on Thursday and left work at work. I didn't really have a boss because no one knew how to do graphics. They gave me my own office and work area and 2 employees to help out.

It took 3-4 meetings to reach agreements on what they would pay for my equipment, starting wages, commisions on "outside" work because I wanted to keep some of my best clients, and other issues. The boss was a great guy and gave me many raises over the years.

Then he sold the company, then that company sold it again, and that one laid me off, but still let me keep my work area and do their jobs. Eventually they ran the company into the ground and I left, taking with me everything I had brought in originally and more.

There are no guarantees, that's for sure, but I would do it over again.

dee

 

[TheSellOut]

Alright so I finally have some time to get back to this thread...

and before reading this I ask you all to take a moment to close your eyes and sent some of that good S101 family JuJu to OldPaint))))))))))))))))))

Keep on Keeping on OP




So after heavily weighing the two options in front of me I have decided to go for this...as long as they agree to my final proposal tomorrow. Which I am not asking hardly any more on the shop but rather attempting to get closer to my asking salary, and to at least be at it next year after I prove that I am worth it.

The major reasons I have come to this conclusion are...

1. That this feels to be one of those once in a lifetime opportunities that I won't be presented with very often. Taking no guarantees into account, I feel strongly that this company will not be going anywhere for at least the next five to ten years. The co. has been around for the past 60 and with the recent natural gas boom it has been seeing record profits and expansion. I have been working with numerous mangers, including general managers and the owner, for the past ten years and it is all the same people that have been there who are happy. The owner is a great man, who is very aware of the value of good passionate employees.

2. They are determined to have an in house graphics/production department and I feel this is a great chance to get in on the ground floor of something big.

3. Their branding/marketing throughout all four entities is in need of some major revamping and consistency control. I am very excited to be able to focus solely on taking the reins of this task and build them a strong company image, while at the same time building my resume & portfolio. Which I also think building a business over 6 years and selling it for a profit will look pretty good too.

4. We are talking a 5 day/50 hour work week, with great benefits,and as some of you know I am a 1st time father of two years and my wife and I would love to have another child. As it is now I work anywhere from 60 to 80, and I am done with that, I want to be around for my family.

5. I suck at the business aspect of industry, design and production I can do all day long, but the business end has always been on the back burner. A lot of it is due to my own short comings but I also place some of the blame on my lack of business education and my 1st employer in the sign industry. I came into signs by shear determination, I was operating an AB Dick printing press at the time that my boss bought a sign shop. He had no clue about sign making and neither did I but I threw myself at the chance to do something creative for a career, which at the age of 20, had been my lifelong dream! The only thing that saved me were a good eye, a few classes I took on AI prior to my employment, and a part timer that stuck around for a while. He became my mentor and to this day my dear dear friend. I quickly became every title that comes along with a business, as the very day my boss closed the deal he also got his 3rd dui, sending him directly to jail. Even after he got out a month or 2 later he never lifted a finger to run this new business. Needless to say he was not the best business man himself and no role model. So at this new job I am also very excited to learn from their business methods and get the feel of management.

5. I will still be living that dream of having a career in a creative field.

I know I am totally seeing green grass over there but it will be hard to jump, for I am aware the stuff I am standing on is pretty green too...maybe a few brown spots but green. Along with all this excitement I am also very saddened by the thought of closing my doors. I have built I good business, that only by way of option 2, would be great...and that is hiring employees. This is something that doesn't even remotely begin to excite me but rather has been quite daunting on my mind.

I will keep you guys posted and one thing is for sure...no matter what is in my future...I know I will always be honored to be a contributing member here!!

Edited to say: that I am taking a lot of your advice on a non-competes, employment contracts, and legal advice into account and really appreciate all of your help! Chicks won't be taken into account but good suggestion none the less...Chicks Man! And Mosh I considered this place a shop when all I had was a 30" plotter!

 

[Pat Whatley]

Man, it actually sounds like a damn good opportunity. Good luck to you, I hope everything works out salary-wise.

 

[signage]

Good luck, hope it goes good for you!

 

[Border]

If what you say is true, I also would be tempted to go for it. One of the things I miss about being "employed" is that I could walk away from it on Friday at 4 and not think about it again until Monday morning.

Make sure they don't put you on an on-call thing, 'cuz that'll get old real quick.

Set your boundaries first, firmly and up-front, before accepting this!

 

[Fitch]

Good luck. Always follow your heart and you will always be happy.

Cheers - G

 

[Ian Stewart-Koster]

It sounds really good, the way you describe it. I hope it works out well for you.

I have two distant good friends who were bought out (or into) like that, then promptly sacked around 2-8 months into the deal. One was 4 years ago, and one 2 years ago. It turned out that was the new owner's plan all along. These two had built their businesses up into very good propositions beforehand, and they are still turning over a lot of money-just not for the fellows who sold them...

Just be careful & consider the worst case scenarios as carefully as the best case scenarios.

 

[njshorts]

Here's hoping it all works out! Looks like a great opportunity.

 

[Gino]

Good Luck................

 

[surf city]

Hey I wish you all the best with this. Do try to get a 5 year contract and make sure ya throw the "Michael J. Fox" Clause in there.