What do y'all think the best approach would be.................................... ??

[Gino]

Had a guy from I think new york call me about a sign in our back yard. Talking to him was a tad interesting, as he understood absolutely nothing about, signs, weather, electricity and many other common things.

He started out by telling me he needed his sign fixed. What kind is it ?? Metal, wood, electric, LED...... ?? He said Not sure, but brother free estimate right. Uh-oh, warning sign - red flag.
I got there around 7pm and texted him if I was at the right place ?? Yes, on site. Don't start, pictures needed please and what we gonna do.

I asked him what was wrong. It's a set of channels and a box sign at the one end. Overall about 3.5' high by maybe 45 or 50 feet long.

I told him that I can't just give him a number and hold to it. We need to find out if it's LED or neon inside, is it really turned off, holes in the tubing or cracks, and check all the transformers. In order to do that, we'll be out there for at least 1/2 a say in this heat. It could take a full day...... we don't know any of this.
He said, it have power outage the whole sign I asked him for nighttime pictures.... I get this, instead
The mall center is requesting he get it fixed. Went on to say everything was working, then there was a power outage and after that the sign never came back on. They checked breakers, reset timer..... so they think it's a sign issue

I told him that it sounds more of an interior electrical problem and we cannot work on electric outside the box or channels. He needs a certified electrician to verify all is good inside before we do the outside.

He comes back with...... how much to diognoset..... whatever that means. I told him again to get an electrician and then get back to us, once everything is 100% inside.

What might any of you said differently ?? At the moment, I have trouble dealing with this, but don't wanna be mean or ugly to him.

 

[Boudica]

Make like Casper and ghost him.

 

[JBurton]

Personally, if it were all working then suddenly not, I'd go out, check power, then plug it in to my generator on the truck and see what burns. Then hook it back up and tell him to call an electrician. Time to set up, wire, replace the toggle switch, all in for half a day here is $600-$800, you'll have to set up twice because power will be on the opposite end of the sign.
Also, if you can get in touch with the shopping center operator, it would be better if you do the work for them and have them charge the client, as he's out of state and may ghost you, but this is it's own can of worms, and the operator may think you're trying to pull a fast one.

 

[netsol]

one of these would tell you just about all you need to know,

how many years in the business?
has a previous job that started out LIKE THIS ever surprised you and had all the pieces fall into place & had you say "boy am i glad i got involved with this job"

 

[JBurton]

one of these would tell you just about all you need to know,

I hate these things with a passion!
I had 4 fixtures for a good client that all went out. Our guy went and waved this stupid pen at them, got a light on all 4 fixtures, so he concluded they had power, we informed them and they sent 4 new fixtures. Went to site, installed new fixtures, no worky. Turns out, they were getting something like 30VAC due to the contactor they used to run the lights having a malfunction. They were not happy to be informed there was a new service ticket after sending all new fixtures.
They will tell you if you're about to get bit, but that's all.

 

[netsol]

To me the purpose of that thing is to give you a warning if SOMEONE TURNED THE BREAKER BACK ON after you walked away.

my shop looks like the greenlee warehouse (with a bunch of oscilloscopes and spectrum analyzers thrown in for good measure. But those little bastards do serve a purpose

 

[Gino]

I have 2 of those things and I don't trust them except on little things, not a 50' long sign.

Years in business........ legally 53 years, but really doing it, about 60.

The problem or question here is...... how do you tell someone to just get an electrician and do it the right way and start at the beginning and not the other end ??

Our 1/2 day cost is $1,050 whether it's 1 hour or 4 hours. Once it goes into the next half it goes up to $1,900 for the entire day. Wanna spend that, when I'm trying to save him money having an electrician tell him what's needed ??
I'm not interested in using a toy to trouble shoot this. I want it fixed 100%. We're talking electricity which could catch fire, snap, crackle pop or just stay dormant for a while. To be sure, you start at the source, not the end . I like to sleep at night, which has not been easy for me for many months, so I'm trying to help the guy. I just don't know why he won't accept a helping hand. Yes I do. He's trying to save a buck. well, not on my watch.

At this stage in my life, I don't really feel like going out and disconnecting and hooking up my generator to show him it's working and then getting screwed on payment. I might've been born yesterday, but I was awake all night.

Just looking for a nice comeback for him, that's all.

 

[Boudica]

Just give it to him straight, it doesn't have to be rude. Say that he needs to address the electrical issues the right way, with a licensed electrician and then you can help him with his sign. Codes, lawsuits, safety and all that stuff.

 

[Johnny Best]

Tell him your very busy and won’t be able to get to it untill next September, you just had a pacemaker put in and do not want to fool with electric right now because of the pacemaker, in the meantime he needs an electric guy to look at it.

 

[ProSignTN]

How many years does it take to learn?

 

[GAC05]

I hate these things with a passion!
I had 4 fixtures for a good client that all went out. Our guy went and waved this stupid pen at them, got a light on all 4 fixtures, so he concluded they had power, we informed them and they sent 4 new fixtures. Went to site, installed new fixtures, no worky. Turns out, they were getting something like 30VAC due to the contactor they used to run the lights having a malfunction. They were not happy to be informed there was a new service ticket after sending all new fixtures.
They will tell you if you're about to get bit, but that's all.

Need to subscribe to some of the youtube science channels to learn proper respect for electricity.

 

[rydods]

I use the "get and electrician" card all the time. At least to diagnose it's truly an issue with the sign. Buys you time/money and keeps you from chasing your tail with a sign that size and a clueless customer.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I don't work on neon.. so I get that out of the way quick. Neon is a different animal and I can see getting in a rabbit hole for that.

If it's LED, you can nail those problems down usually quick. If the whole sign is off... I tell them it's a $375 or whatever for my service call. I'll work on anything in the sign but beyond that is electrician territory. He can either have me come out there first or the electrician, his gamble. If it's the sign.. it's usually some power supplies or shorted / disconnected lines. My truck has an A/C outlet so it's easy for me to run an extension cord up there and power the sign. If it turns on, show the client / take a picture and tell him the sign works... get an electrician out here.

I tell them $375 for the service call, then run down some possible senecios. I tell them common parts that go out are power supplies, they are $300-$400 and I have those in stock on the truck so we can knock it out during same service call. I get them to at least agree to that repair since it so common. I say it could be as much as LEDs in which we'll have to quote when we diagnose it... but that's more rare.

Keep it simple

 

[Stacey K]

I would just tell him you are going to "pass" on this and that an electrician is more qualified, it's out of the scope of work you do. He probably thinks a sign shop is cheaper than an electrician - or maybe he thinks to diagnose is free - or he has no intentions of paying you. He probably won't pay you to diagnose, he will say you didn't do anything, why should pay you. I don't trust this...

 

[Gino]

Got a text from him a bit ago and he said he had a qualified electrician confirm that nothings wrong inside that the problem is the sign. Can you fix it today ??

Nope. Send me your email and I'll send over the preliminary quote to check it out. Can't get to it for about 2 weeks.

He also said, maybe the whole sign needs to be replaced. Guy must have money.

 

[JBurton]

He also said, maybe the whole sign needs to be replaced. Guy must have money.

I'd lean right into this, pull numbers from a comparable project, add some fat, and get him the price asap. 'If you sign off today, I can put a rush on it and have it in 4 weeks instead of our typical 6-8, as long as the down payment hits the bank in the next 12 hours.'
From the sound of everything he's said, it doesn't sound like he's trying to screw you over, rather he's an idiot. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

 

[Gino]

That's almost exactly what I'm doing with him. I'll show him they work here in the shop, then again off our power once on the building and when we take our power away, it's on him..... just not in those words.
I'll do a dposit of 1/2 up front and the balance before we instal them. I actually think it'll be cheaper this way, rather than working on 25 year old neon channels.

Had a guy about 25 or 30 years ago have a very similar problem. They'd work, then they'd go off. Next day they'd work and later in the day go off. He never wanted to pay me to come out and investigate. Got a call from the fire marshal to come to the place. Place caught fire up in the ceiling. Turned out, they had wired it themselves and to make things look nice, shoved all the transformers up in a little pocket in the ceiling. No air flow or circulation. They overheated one too many times and caught fire.