What NOT to do when Selling a 4x8 sign and installing it....

[John Butto]

Anyone who has dug in signposts has run into some difficulty in the process. Be it rocks or sprinkler lines, tree roots etc.
Adtechia is in the same boat as the rest of us. He is just trying to fit in. The mob with the pitchforks and torches standing outside his door shouting insults gets boring after a while.

 

[Locals Find!]

How do you know that an electrical line isn't at the location you pound the rebar into the ground?

I hope you call "one call" first, and if electrical line exist that they locate them correctly!

What you are doing just seems like a waste of time, something more like a real estate salesman would do, not a signman!

I always call before I dig to have all lines marked.

My rebar trick is something necessary in my area. I hate digging down one hole getting it perfect to then realize a quarter way into the next hole that I hit a massive immovable rock. Which requires me to reposition everything all over again. Not doing this is what led to this weekends failure.

 

[HDvinyl]

The mob with the pitchforks and torches standing outside his door shouting insults gets boring after a while.

Luckily a while is not up yet.

 

[signmeup]

Anyone who has dug in signposts has run into some difficulty in the process. Be it rocks or sprinkler lines, tree roots etc.
Adtechia is in the same boat as the rest of us. He is just trying to fit in. The mob with the pitchforks and torches standing outside his door shouting insults gets boring after a while.

I agree with John. Jason has a pretty tough hide to put up with the shameful level of disrespect some people here delight in hurling at him. We are all in the same boat here fellas. I for one never thought of pounding in a rebar to check for rocks. Sometimes the simplest things elude me.

I thank you for the tip Jason.

Adrian

 

[Signsforwhile]

file it under sh*t happens....been there done that - http://www.signs101.com/forums/showthread.php?95887-It-s-100%BA-out-why-would-everything-go-smoothly

 

[HDvinyl]

Do people not remember the first 1000 Addie posts???

It will take A LOT of good from Addie to forget all the bad.

 

[Moze]

Usually I check for buried rock with a 4 foot piece of rebarb with a sharpened tip I pound 2 feet of it down into where I wanna dig and see if it suddenly stops. If it does well I know I got a rock in my way and relocate. This time I didn't since the other part of the plantation was so smooth.

Understood...but the issue with that method is you might pound the rebar down, not hit anything, but there's a huge rock (or rocks) an inch over that you're still going to hit when you start digging. If there's something uncertain (digging holes where you may hit rock, sprinkler lines, etc, removing old vinyl that might chip off in tiny pieces, etc.) you really need to include a T&M clause in your quote. A hole that should take an hour to dig can easily turn into a 2-3 hour dig.

Keep in mind also, a pier doesn't have to be perfectly cylindrical. If you're digging and you hit a rock you can always dig outward but just maintain the same general diameter....cut the post so it misses the rock, and scab on a piece of 2" x 4" so it misses the rock but still extends down. You can also trim a portion of the 4'' x 4'' down into a 2" x 4" to miss large rocks. The important thing is that the concrete encases the post and any bracing/attached support material.

Even with large pylon signs, sometimes a spread foundation is used because a standard deep pier can't be drilled due to underground utilities, etc. So long story short - if you can't dig down, dig out (then down if possible).

 

[Gino]

John, let the guy alone. He can't help he's a 'cock up'. :Big Laugh

Ya know, anyone making these mistakes has got to be a total novice [nincompoop] when it comes to installing something of this nature...... and it took 5 hours.
Most of the things on his list are just for more ego fulfilling stoopidiness to throw you off the real trail of his ineptitudiness of just about anything he does and/or says.

Yeah, right. Stick a 4' rebar down in the ground to check for rocks. I never heard of anything so stoopid. What if you happen to miss all the rocks ?? What happens if you hit a little pebble ?? Who is gonna call the 'Dig Number' without a job securely in place ?? Around here, your holes need to be 36" to 42" deep for a 4' x 8'. You mean to tell me, you'll push that bar in the ground almost all of the way and then dig it back out ?? As for trying to help anyone down the road, I don't think there's another living soul who would've done any of the things you did..... especailly from someone claiming to know it all, already. Good Grief, a site survey charge for a simple 4' x 8' sign...............

Anyone in their right mind would've suggested a sled sign and had the installation done in 15 minutes.
​

 

[Locals Find!]

I agree with John. Jason has a pretty tough hide to put up with the shameful level of disrespect some people here delight in hurling at him. We are all in the same boat here fellas. I for one never thought of pounding in a rebar to check for rocks. Sometimes the simplest things elude me.

I thank you for the tip Jason.

Adrian

Your welcome Adrian. It works fairly decent, mostly in softer soil. If you got hard pack well it can become more a pain than its worth. We have fairly sandy soil here so its fairly effective. I have a tendency to do some poking around a bit usually. Just to make sure I am not smacking into that proverbial pebble. However, usually with our smaller stones being mostly sandstone, limestone and coral you can break up the smaller one with a couple of good whacks. We don't have the granite you guys up north have.

John, let the guy alone. He can't help he's a 'cock up'. :Big Laugh

Ya know, anyone making these mistakes has got to be a total novice [nincompoop] when it comes to installing something of this nature...... and it took 5 hours.
Most of the things on his list are just for more ego fulfilling stoopidiness to throw you off the real trail of his ineptitudiness of just about anything he does and/or says.

Yeah, right. Stick a 4' rebar down in the ground to check for rocks. I never heard of anything so stoopid. What if you happen to miss all the rocks ?? What happens if you hit a little pebble ?? Who is gonna call the 'Dig Number' without a job securely in place ?? Around here, your holes need to be 36" to 42" deep for a 4' x 8'. You mean to tell me, you'll push that bar in the ground almost all of the way and then dig it back out ?? As for trying to help anyone down the road, I don't think there's another living soul who would've done any of the things you did..... especailly from someone claiming to know it all, already. Good Grief, a site survey charge for a simple 4' x 8' sign...............

Anyone in their right mind would've suggested a sled sign and had the installation done in 15 minutes.
​

A sled sign wouldn't have worked Gino. While that is a nice idea on hard packed ground that isn't going to fly on the corner of a plantation. Would have looked totally out of place with the grounds. You don't put a sled sign on 7.5 acres of Manicured grounds it's just not done.

You would never put an 8 foot post 36" in the ground then mount a 4 foot sign too it. That would put my sign about a foot off the ground. Who is going to read a sign that low??? Maybe a few of your chipmunks??

As for the dig number its required by law here no matter where you dig. You hit a fiber optic line and your looking at a minimum $40,000 fine plus court costs. I had a friend hit one of these once while doing a lot scrape, by the time the telephone company was done with him he lost his entire business. It's free and easy so I always call. Even when planting in my yard. They put lines all over the place here. Unlike more established northern communities things have been built hodge-podge down here. Depending on when we get a building boom and we have had quite a few in the last 60 years. What was once a farm becomes, a golf course, later goes back to being a farm.

The survey charge is being done now by other shops in my area that do the same level of business as you. If it's working for the big boys I feel confident in following suite. Especially considering most of my larger signs like this are an easy 40 mile drive each way.

The 5 hours was due to having to travel off the site to go cut down one post to work around a rock shelf then re-dill my mounting holes (to account for the shortened post), a trip to the hardware store back in town to pick up some larger lag bolts and a socket for the driver I was borrowing to fit the larger lag bolts.

Your comment about no one ever making the same mistakes is just ludicrous. Not everyone that will get into this business will know it all. Learning from others mistakes is a big part of the education on this site.

 

[Techman]

i lived in florida for years and worked from Jacksonville through daytona beach all the way down to arcadia.

I never once struck multiple rocks in any one site. I cannot remember ever hitting rocks while digging there. It was always sandy soil.
All except for working around parking lots. And then working around a parking lot I always figured on hitting concrete.

 

[Pat Whatley]

+1
no real sign person would make any of the mistakes on your list

I've installed about 500 4' x 8' real estate signs in the last five years.

I'm not a real sign person because in the last year I have...
-thought i wouldn't need to survey the site
-assumed the ground won't have boulders the size of VW Beetles buried 6 inches under the soil.
-always assume my post hole diggers are adequate tools (and forgotten them several times)
-forgotten my cordless drill....or got there with three dead batteries and no screws
-routinely underestimate the time it will take
-promised deadlines I shouldn't have
-underpriced an installation

What Addie described is just a routine job where everything went bad. They happen to all of us.

 

[Pat Whatley]

You would never put an 8 foot post 36" in the ground then mount a 4 foot sign too it. That would put my sign about a foot off the ground. Who is going to read a sign that low??? Maybe a few of your chipmunks?.

Addie...you do know that posts come in different lengths, don't you?

 

[OldPaint]

AND I LIVED IN SARASOTA 19 YEARS..... and never hit a ROCK on any digging!!!!! usually i would dig 18 inches and hit WATER))))

 

[boxerbay]

i lived in florida for years and worked from Jacksonville through daytona beach all the way down to arcadia.

I never once struck multiple rocks in any one site. I cannot remember ever hitting rocks while digging there. It was always sandy soil.
All except for working around parking lots. And then working around a parking lot I always figured on hitting concrete.

anything south of lake Okeechobee is solid limestone just after a few feet down. anything north of the lake is sugar sand.

I needed to plant 3 palms in my front yard. scooped up a helper from HD parking lot and paid him $50.00. Best $50.00 I ever spent.

** some people here are pretty harsh. live and learn.

 

[John Butto]

anything south of lake Okeechobee is solid limestone just after a few feet down. anything north of the lake is sugar sand.

I needed to plant 3 palms in my front yard. scooped up a helper from HD parking lot and paid him $50.00. Best $50.00 I ever spent.

** some people here are pretty harsh. live and learn.

http://books.google.com/books?id=fD...onepage&q=sarasota florida soil types&f=false

Soil types for Sarasota, FL. Looks like it is all sandy and digging down any depth you will encounter water. So it seems OldPaint is correct. Most likely Adtechia is digging where fill has been bought in to "build" up the land for construction and is hitting compacted dirt mixed with rocks.
And from Lake Okeechobee south is a mixture of different soils, with parts consisting of cap rock, sand, muck and coral rock which help the water drain into the Everglades and Florida straits. Boxerboy needs to read "River of Grass" by Marjory Stoneman Douglas.

 

[HDvinyl]

Let's see some pics, Addie.

And for those of you concerned for Addie's skin, .

 

[boxerbay]

http://books.google.com/books?id=fD...onepage&q=sarasota florida soil types&f=false

Soil types for Sarasota, FL. Looks like it is all sandy and digging down any depth you will encounter water. So it seems OldPaint is correct. Most likely Adtechia is digging where fill has been bought in to "build" up the land for construction and is hitting compacted dirt mixed with rocks.
And from Lake Okeechobee south is a mixture of different soils, with parts consisting of cap rock, sand, muck and coral rock which help the water drain into the Everglades and Florida straits. Boxerboy needs to read "River of Grass" by Marjory Stoneman Douglas.

so you're asuming he was digging in Sarasota and not Cape Coral? It's funny when a Jersey boy tells a Miami native what to read to learn about where he's lived. Simply ridiculous. George Carlin said it best, "When you assume you make an..."

 

[Baz]

One thing i've learned from doing many installations. Load up expecting the worst!!! If you don't know the site, if you haven't had a look at the place. You bring everything with you.

 

[John Butto]

so you're asuming he was digging in Sarasota and not Cape Coral? It's funny when a Jersey boy tells a Miami native what to read to learn about where he's lived. Simply ridiculous. George Carlin said it best, "When you assume you make an..."

I stand corrected, Cape Coral is in Lee County FL. Here is the soil type: muck and sand
http://www.leegov.com/gov/dept/dcd/EnvSciences/Wetlands/Pages/HydricSoil.aspx

 

[boxerbay]

I stand corrected, Cape Coral is in Lee County FL. Here is the soil type: muck and sand
http://www.leegov.com/gov/dept/dcd/EnvSciences/Wetlands/Pages/HydricSoil.aspx

Probably not a good idea to replace a site survey and detailed contract with a Google search. You will get burned most of the time.

Site survey then always detail the work contract. we agree to blah blah and if blah blah happens and we need additional equipment then client is responsible for blah blah.