Why Do So Many People Use IJ180 When the Project Doesn't Seem to Call for It?

[WarrenHarding]

I know sign shops that use IJ180 for basically every vinyl project that doesn't require something temporary or that can adhere to bumpy surfaces. It costs 4x a roll of standard calendared vinyl. That standard, cheaper, vinyl, can hold up for 5 years in an interior environment easily, but people are laying IJ180 on sheetrock walls in offices.

What gives?

I even have an installer telling me he sees higher quality in print shops that only use "3M products" - but never see any real comparisons between 3M and established competitors like GF or Oracal. It looks like the Apple of vinyl to me.

Am I missing something?

 

[victor bogdanov]

Just likely everyone wants everything laminated when most stuff doesn't need laminate, half the interior walls graphics I see are laminated, total waste

 

[Boudica]

My take on this would be that smaller shops don't need multiple brands of vinyl on deck. Cast when necessary, and calendered when appropriate. No need to go outside the comfort zone with brands when guaranteeing your work.

 

[MikePro]

easier to have a standard of awesomeness and price accordingly
people get burned on cheap materials, and 3M pushed their marketing of longevity at a time when Avery had a massive failure of warranty.

edited to add: laminated, is quality. sucks to double the cost of material but it will double the longevity of your ink that will eventually scratch, if not on install, or meet an overzealous cleaning lady,

 

[MarkSnelling]

Has anyone here been reimbursed by 3M for a warranty claim? Honest question.

 

[Gino]

Not by 3M, as I can't think of any real problem with them since the 80's. However, I was reimbursed by avery from their failures with vinyls occurred.

 

[netsol]

is the claim process an ordeal? many companies that offer some sort of coverage or reimbursement never intend to pay

nothing against avery OR 3m. just based on experience in another industry...

 

[JBurton]

easier to have a standard of awesomeness and price accordingly

This plus consistency. That's why I only run Arlon SLX for my premium cast stuff.

As to laminate, I prefer a satin finish over gloss, matte when it's called for. It helps to hide defects and screw ups.

 

[WarrenHarding]

Just likely everyone wants everything laminated when most stuff doesn't need laminate, half the interior walls graphics I see are laminated, total waste

Disagree with you here - the scratch protection and added durability of lamination is a great value add in my opinion.

My take on this would be that smaller shops don't need multiple brands of vinyl on deck. Cast when necessary, and calendered when appropriate. No need to go outside the comfort zone with brands when guaranteeing your work.

That still allows for using a calendared option though. Use the cast for wraps and tough surfaces, but when you're doing a painted sheetrock wall or windows just stick with the calandered stuff no?

 

[Grizzly]

For wall graphics specifically, we've had too many failures with calendared products with and without lamination. If you have to replace a wall once because some weird paint was on it, you didn't clean it perfectly or you have to go around something, there is zero advantage over using a less expensive product. We use IJ180cv3 for walls all the time. Never half to worry about failures or what surprise you're going to get.

 

[crashaffinity]

Has anyone here been reimbursed by 3M for a warranty claim? Honest question.

yes, my shop was reimbured in the tens of thousands due to faulty material. If you follow their guidelines they come through

 

[WarrenHarding]

For wall graphics specifically, we've had too many failures with calendared products with and without lamination. If you have to replace a wall once because some weird paint was on it, you didn't clean it perfectly or you have to go around something, there is zero advantage over using a less expensive product. We use IJ180cv3 for walls all the time. Never half to worry about failures or what surprise you're going to get.

What kind of failures have you had? We use calendared vinyl standard for almost all projects and I've never had a customer come to us about issues with the vinyl until years later, when it's reaching the end of its lifespan.

 

[crashaffinity]

I know sign shops that use IJ180 for basically every vinyl project that doesn't require something temporary or that can adhere to bumpy surfaces. It costs 4x a roll of standard calendared vinyl. That standard, cheaper, vinyl, can hold up for 5 years in an interior environment easily, but people are laying IJ180 on sheetrock walls in offices.

What gives?

I even have an installer telling me he sees higher quality in print shops that only use "3M products" - but never see any real comparisons between 3M and established competitors like GF or Oracal. It looks like the Apple of vinyl to me.

Am I missing something?

Not necesarily 3M but if you follow a reputable manufacturer + their recommended laminate and recommended installation guidelines you will do alright. We follow multiple manufacturers and we do alright with all of them. It's a toss up between price point and impression and performance, though for high end we usually go with top end 3M. Very dependent on customer expectations though.

 

[Mike Paul]

I don’t do a lot of large coverage interior walls I’m 99 % vehicles but it’s easier to use what you have loaded in the printer which is cast film here. The laminator too, cast laminate.
It’s a pain in the butt switching heavy rolls out.

Just charge accordingly and don’t worry about the low bidders. They come and go quick…

Laminated graphics are so much easier to install on any application.

 

[somcalmetim]

What kind of failures have you had? We use calendared vinyl standard for almost all projects and I've never had a customer come to us about issues with the vinyl until years later, when it's reaching the end of its lifespan.

Works well on metal but tried to use calendared 3M 40C on walls and had issues with edges peeling on some painted drywalls...
We try to save material nesting smaller wall prints in our existing 180c print runs...it ends up cheaper for everyone if you can print it all together in 180 rather than spending an extra hour in labor running a separate print to save $20 using cheap material...

If nobody has come to you with issues it doesn't mean there wasn't any...the ones who came back to you with issues were the ones who gave you a second chance.