Why the limited gamut?

[Colin]

http://www.rolanddga.com/training/webinar/archive/video_25.asp

Good - thanks Custom Grafx.

 

[Bly]

Listen to Bob.

You can get pretty prints without all that fancy calibration mumbo jumbo.

Hell of a lot of trouble to go to isn't it?

 

[Terremoto]

Listen to Bob.

You can get pretty prints without all that fancy calibration mumbo jumbo.

Hell of a lot of trouble to go to isn't it?

I guess it all depends on whether or not hit and miss quality is what you want to let out of your shop. There are other shops out there that just wouldn't call that acceptable though. To each his own I suppose.

Dan

 

[Colin]

Ok, I'd really like replies to this:

In an attempt to get a nice, neutral B&W print, I've now tried every possible setting combination for using the K channel only, but no matter what, I keep getting that fine banding which suggests a problem with the K nozzle. If I let it mix CMYK to produce the B&W, it prints really nice (smooth, without the fine banding) but the gray is off (too pink/green etc). It's too bad, because the grays are not bad using K only.

So should I use one of those cleaning cartridges that came with the printer and run it in the K cartridge slot? Will this clear that nozzle?

 

[eye4clr]

It didn't used to be this way, but now I love to see "I just adjust the ink limits in the RIP", "I print color swatch files and work from that", or my favorite "that profiling stuff is for tecno weenies who have too much time on their hands".

To those who may doubt the value, please carry on while those of us that implement ordinary color management reap the benefits. It's a competitive world and I do everything I can to take advantage where I can.

What do I know, I suppose you can get pretty prints without a lot of fancy schmancy color management. In 15+ years of color management training and consulting I've never seen any difference in effort, time, and precision with and without these tools. Please continue to do things as you are.



Seriously though, if you want good grey output, either spend the time and materials or implement proper, custom color management. It's a simple situation.

 

[Terremoto]

So should I use one of those cleaning cartridges that came with the printer and run it in the K cartridge slot? Will this clear that nozzle?

What does the test pattern look like when you do a test print?

Dan

 

[Colin]

I'm not sure who you're addressing that to eye4, but I'm doing my darndest to try and learn all I can on this, and when one works alone, without another person or persons to brainstorm with and learn from, it isn't easy.

While you were typing, I was dipping my feet into actually adjusting the profile for the Rite Media Matte paper I'm dealing with. Never done that before. I am seeing very real differences, but can't seem to shake the greens & pinks. If I use the "Density Control Only" preset in VW, then it goes back to using the K channel only, along with the fine banding I'm getting, so I'm making all CMYK setting adjustments to the profile, and then using the "Sign & Display" preset to get the mix of colors involved.

Someday my prints will come.

 

[Colin]

What does the test pattern look like when you do a test print?

...

 

[Terremoto]

Don't see anything amiss there. Not too sure how it works on a Roland but is there some kind of media compensation setting?

For instance, on a Mimaki there is a media compensation setting that allows for a brand new (heavy) roll of media as opposed to a near finished roll that would require less pull to pass it over the grit roller.

Maybe there's something similar on a Roland. Just tossing out ideas.

Dan

 

[Colin]

Don't see anything amiss there.

Then why the heck would I be getting that fine banding with the K-only prints?

Not too sure how it works on a Roland but is there some kind of media compensation setting?

For instance, on a Mimaki there is a media compensation setting that allows for a brand new (heavy) roll of media as opposed to a near finished roll that would require less pull to pass it over the grit roller.

Maybe there's something similar on a Roland. Just tossing out ideas.

I've tried slack & no slack. No difference.

 

[randya]

Ok, I'd really like replies to this:

In an attempt to get a nice, neutral B&W print, I've now tried every possible setting combination for using the K channel only, but no matter what, I keep getting that fine banding which suggests a problem with the K nozzle. If I let it mix CMYK to produce the B&W, it prints really nice (smooth, without the fine banding) but the gray is off (too pink/green etc). It's too bad, because the grays are not bad using K only.

So should I use one of those cleaning cartridges that came with the printer and run it in the K cartridge slot? Will this clear that nozzle?

If the nozzle is clogged from below, it is doubtful that a cleaning cartridge will work any better than the K cartridge to dissolve the clog from the top.

If it mearly deflected, then it could be dried ink on the nozzle plate or damage to the nozzle itself.

For clogged nozzles head soaking is recommended.

And yes, you can print K only.
But output will depend on droplet sizes, variable droplet curves, dithering patterns, etc. Which would all be optimized through a profile.
And if you are using a CMYK profile that was optimized for all carts, then it may not produce the output that you want.

You might try testing at the highest resolution.
This typically will use the smallest droplet sizes.

On our printers there is a real time micro adjust for the feed.
If you have something like that, you can adjust on the fly and see if it is a feed issue, or just your missing nozzle.

 

[Colin]

....yes, you can print K only, but output will depend on droplet sizes, variable droplet curves, dithering patterns, etc. Which would all be optimized through a profile.

You might try testing at the highest resolution.
This typically will use the smallest droplet sizes.

I'm doing all testing at highest resolution.

I've tried myriad CMYK settings in the profile and getting rid of undesirable green/pink etc tones seems impossible!

 

[GAC05]

Eagerly awaiting some suggested solutions.
Just got a wrap layout that has 3 logos containing gradients against a gradient background.All the objects are shades of gray with the exception of a 4th logo that is in color, preventing a gray-scale only approach .....

wayne k
guam usa

 

[randya]

I'm doing all testing at highest resolution.

I've tried myriad CMYK settings in the profile and getting rid of undesirable green/pink etc tones seems impossible!

Getting new greys out CMYK depend on the linearization curves, particularly for C and M.

Ideally you want the density of these two to be identical.
Problems arise when one is lower than the other.
The truth is that these may swap positions throughout the curves, giving a magental hue on the lightest greys and cyan on the darker greys or vise versa.

It is easier to add a filter than to modify the profile.
Most RIPs have the ability to add a filter to change the hue.
If you can find a profile where C and M are mostly linear, the filter is your best option.

For M tint, you can subtract M or add C.
You may have to adjust Y some as well.

You can print off some smalll copies and may be able to find something you like.

Be sure and look at this under the lighting conditions you expect the finished piece to be illuminated with. Because of metamerism the hue with shift with the color of the illuminate.

 

[Bly]

1. Create custom profile for media.
2. Open file, preflight on screen.
3. Press print.

If it's an exterior sign I'll run off a strip of the grey and take it outside to check for metamerism.

 

[randya]

Eagerly awaiting some suggested solutions.
Just got a wrap layout that has 3 logos containing gradients against a gradient background.All the objects are shades of gray with the exception of a 4th logo that is in color, preventing a gray-scale only approach .....

wayne k
guam usa

Greys by themselves are much easier to deal with with filters.
Greys and color are the problem, because a filter will change all colors.

 

[Colin]

randy: I see no "filters" anywhere in the profiling area.

I've printed off many now, and it's getting frustrating. The best one so far has been 70 70 70 100, but it seems too light compared to the K only print using "Density Control Only" preset (which is no good due to the fine banding). Is it ok to have the K at 100%?

I am using the method shown on the recorded Roland webinar video, where he draws a rectangle and fills it with a graduated tone from white to black (CMYK) and exporting that as an EPS. Should I be filling it with RGB instead?

 

[Colin]

Aright, the recipe in the Rite Media Matte Paper profile was C90 M100 Y95 K70, and I've found the best combo is C70 M80 Y90 K90. Still not perfect, but I really don't know what else to do.

Is that basically what's involved in creating custom profiles - changing the CMYK values and test-printing over & over?

 

[JoshLoring]

Colin- I just noticed your printing high res... This dumps a lot of unnecessary ink on the material and might be your green problem.
Can you try printing at 720x720 Wpass or 540x720 Vpass? These might help.

I've never printed 1440 in 5 years. Never looks better then 720

 

[Colin]

Lights in the shop are off right now - what a day. I'll give that a try tomorrow, but keep in mind that my concern here is for B&W photo prints larger than 8"x10" - prints that I will be framing & selling, so the finest resolution is required.