windows 11 PUSH...big time!

[visual800]

A lot of you know I despise updates, I dont update my iphone and I stopped updating my computers back in windows 98 second edition. Nothing like the feeling of your stuff on your computer to STOP working because you updated.

We have all be brainwashed into thinking "updates are for security reasons, to protect you from malicious attack"s....BS! microsoft IS the malicious activity. I have been ignoring windows 11 updates probably for most of this year. I can no longer shut my computer down without making the choice to update and shut down or restart and update. Now I get flash ups on my screen saying windows 10 will no longer be supported! Like thats a threat? Supported by what? Why do any of us need any support by microsoft. They are really pushing windows 11 hard and Im sure its for no good reason

I guess the worst thing that can happen is upplug it from internet and use another computer to surf

 

[White Haus]

Yep. I finally gave in this week. Took my main personal workstation an hour or so and voila, I'm on W11 and Microsoft can finally shut up.

I get where you're going, but I have more important things to worry about than what reasons MS has for forcing me to upgrade to W11.

 

[Johnny Best]

i went the route of having a separate computer for the internet browsing and another for designing signs and printing. less stressful.

 

[Solventinkjet]

I get where you're going, but I have more important things to worry about than what reasons MS has for forcing me to upgrade to W11.

Like pretty much everything these days, Windows 11 is simply just set up to better scrape your information to sell to whoever will pay for it.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Updates are a double edge sword, anything that brings about change (be it for better or worse) brings instability along with it.

Now, as to if updates are necessary or not. Nothing is error free. While your workflow may not bring about those errors, that doesn't mean that they don't exist. There were people complaining about Ai and Draw bugs that eventually got fixed that I never dealt with in my workflow. That isn't even security issues and yes, there are those issues, the fact that we seem to have quite the few recently that dealt with a lot of user data (our data) should illustrate that point.

However, on the flip side updates, particularly with Windows and Mac, come with a lot of bloat. And that is why people seem to think they aren't necessary (and that bloat isn't).

As to why, I can only speculate based on all that I'm reading, and most of it is telemetry in the form of what people are erroneously calling "AI" and in particular agentic "AI". MS and most other software companies have ceased to be software companies and are data harvesting companies. Which isn't too surprising as a lot of software out there is 30+ yrs old, it's hard to win people over in upgrading using the old model and as such, need that continue revenue stream (which leads to less innovation and more iteration).

I get where you're going, but I have more important things to worry about than what reasons MS has for forcing me to upgrade to W11.

While I can understand (and wish we could be that way), this is partly why we are here with ads on everything (including refrigerators, why the hell is it connected to the internet anyway? I can only be at the frig so long playing Doom on it). This is why everything is SaaS filled with ads (regardless if the software/hardware was paid for or not). And it isn't only MS that is doing this. Unfortunately, once it gets accepted for one, typically the flood gates are open for the rest and it's hard to get back what was lost at that point.

i went the route of having a separate computer for the internet browsing and another for designing signs and printing. less stressful.

Given that most software requires some form of internet connectivity, having that separation isn't quite the same as it once was when everything didn't have a store connected to it or having certain functionality connected to it. Even more so, if using something that is subscription based (which most are getting that way). Even Affinity isn't devoid of needing some internet connectivity for something outside of just online activation (which is another issue, but that is moot at this point), I do believe store, syncing etc while trivial compared to other features that not everyone may use, still are features that require online access.

 

[visual800]

my biggest issue is im running flexi 10 on disk ans also AI cs5...last thing I need is for those to go away, Im not doing subscription

 

[netsol]

Updates are a double edge sword, anything that brings about change (be it for better or worse) brings instability along with it.

Now, as to if updates are necessary or not. Nothing is error free. While your workflow may not bring about those errors, that doesn't mean that they don't exist. There were people complaining about Ai and Draw bugs that eventually got fixed that I never dealt with in my workflow. That isn't even security issues and yes, there are those issues, the fact that we seem to have quite the few recently that dealt with a lot of user data (our data) should illustrate that point.

However, on the flip side updates, particularly with Windows and Mac, come with a lot of bloat. And that is why people seem to think they aren't necessary (and that bloat isn't).

As to why, I can only speculate based on all that I'm reading, and most of it is telemetry in the form of what people are erroneously calling "AI" and in particular agentic "AI". MS and most other software companies have ceased to be software companies and are data harvesting companies. Which isn't too surprising as a lot of software out there is 30+ yrs old, it's hard to win people over in upgrading using the old model and as such, need that continue revenue stream (which leads to less innovation and more iteration).



While I can understand (and wish we could be that way), this is partly why we are here with ads on everything (including refrigerators, why the hell is it connected to the internet anyway? I can only be at the frig so long playing Doom on it). This is why everything is SaaS filled with ads (regardless if the software/hardware was paid for or not). And it isn't only MS that is doing this. Unfortunately, once it gets accepted for one, typically the flood gates are open for the rest and it's hard to get back what was lost at that point.



Given that most software requires some form of internet connectivity, having that separation isn't quite the same as it once was when everything didn't have a store connected to it or having certain functionality connected to it. Even more so, if using something that is subscription based (which most are getting that way). Even Affinity isn't devoid of needing some internet connectivity for something outside of just online activation (which is another issue, but that is moot at this point), I do believe store, syncing etc while trivial compared to other features that not everyone may use, still are features that require online access.

sorry, man
they are not really a "double edged sword"
that implies there would be some small benefit to offset the steaming pile of horses**t windows update delivers.

thinking back as far as dos 3.1 i am not sure that is true...

 

[netsol]

if i try to login to one more thing and have microsoft butt in with one of those "making sure it's you (as though they could care less) " dialogs it might put me over the edge

makes you wonder where all this stupid drivel originates

 

[WildWestDesigns]

sorry, man
they are not really a "double edged sword"
that implies there would be some small benefit to offset the steaming pile of horses**t windows update delivers.

There is no code that has been written that doesn't have a flaw in it and once those flaws are public reported after x amount of time goes by to get someone to fix it, that becomes an issue.

How many people here "loved" XP (I couldn't understand it, but there were people that did)? It didn't actually get good until it had an update under it's belt.

Now, if you are talking about the updates from Win 8.1 on (including the overlap with Win 7), there is far more bloat in those updates compared to much that is tangible. But in this age of ship now, fix later (not even including the fact that I think there is 40% "AI" generated code in Windows now and are actively pushing devs to use their "AI" products (which makes me wonder how good it is, if they are having to make it mandatory for employees to use it)) there is definitely a need for patches.

As the dev talent pool contracts even more, I can see this being the case more and more.

thinking back as far as dos 3.1 i am not sure that is true...

I remember when MS had a Unix-like OS, but I digress. Going that far back, because there wasn't a perpetually online connection, the only update that those systems ever got was when there was computer update as well. At least for us.

if i try to login to one more thing and have microsoft butt in with one of those "making sure it's you (as though they could care less) " dialogs it might put me over the edge

makes you wonder where all this stupid drivel originates

That would be data harvesting for you. Pucker up, because y'all are going to have less and less ability to have a local account as the loopholes get closed. That's what they want, everyone signing in. Shoot, even the "free" continued support for Win 10 is dependent on the user having an MS account. Now, could there be 3rd party hacks to overcome that, probably, it will always be a game of catchup though and how well does one trust those 3rd party hacks as well? Pretty soon it's going to be a thin client with enough software to bootstrap a connection to an Azure instance that will have your OS/programs on it.

I'm just glad that I haven't had to deal with this since Win 7 was new. Now, I do miss my Win 98 (not SE, the original one) and I remember when it would remind one every 24 hrs that there was an update until one did it, but at least that was the only thing that one had to deal with.

 

[Gino]

Think I pulled a muscle in my head.

 

[bob]

Updates as well as their vicious cousin, passwords, serve the updating entity and the agency demanding a password far more that the end user. Especially passwords. They are touted as somehow protecting the end user from all manner of unpleasantness while, in reality, they serve to protect those demanding a password. Even more insidious is the two part ,or whatever they call it, pass word scheme.

I will do an update if, after trivial research, the update seems to do something I want done. As far as passwords, I never sign up for the two-factor nonsense and most everything has exactly the same password. Jump on any of my machines and have fun looking around. There's no information I care about on any of them. No banking, no credit card information, no nothing. Only a complete idiot would keep financial information on an internet connected machine.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Updates as well as their vicious cousin, passwords, serve the updating entity and the agency demanding a password far more that the end user. Especially passwords. They are touted as somehow protecting the end user from all manner of unpleasantness while, in reality, they serve to protect those demanding a password. Even more insidious is the two part ,or whatever they call it, pass word scheme.

I'll password, encrypt my own machines. Once someone else is involved that's where the issue start to unfold. Why I don't trust 3rd party backups either. I have a harder time with biometrics on many levels compared to passwords though.

For 2FA, I'll actually use a YubiKey compared to say the supposed "smartphone" (can't really do the cell phone thing when don't have one). That is just asking for issues. Even if the user is one of the more diligent users out there, there can still be issues with using a phone for that use case. Little bit different with a desktop, have more options with doing things that if nothing else add to the mental gymnastics of more security.

Only a complete idiot would keep financial information on an internet connected machine.

Ironically, even though "you" may not do it. Doesn't mean that "your" financial institution, medical institution hasn't done it for "you". That's the insidious part about it. Regardless if "you" do or don't do it, doesn't mean that "your" info isn't out there. I would add in having production machines on the internet, but here we are with people loving their SaaS that has to be connected to the internet all the time. Same thing with cars and household appliances. Which at some point, rather or not a person wants them, if they aren't making the offline versions, it's going to be herculean task to avoid anything at that point without some major pains.

 

[SeMi57]

But I'm getting a message from Microsoft stating that my computer is not compatible with Windows 11, it runs 10 with no problems!

 

[bob]

I do the best I can with what I have a

I'll password, encrypt my own machines. Once someone else is involved that's where the issue start to unfold. Why I don't trust 3rd party backups either. I have a harder time with biometrics on many levels compared to passwords though.

For 2FA, I'll actually use a YubiKey compared to say the supposed "smartphone" (can't really do the cell phone thing when don't have one). That is just asking for issues. Even if the user is one of the more diligent users out there, there can still be issues with using a phone for that use case. Little bit different with a desktop, have more options with doing things that if nothing else add to the mental gymnastics of more security.




Ironically, even though "you" may not do it. Doesn't mean that "your" financial institution, medical institution hasn't done it for "you". That's the insidious part about it. Regardless if "you" do or don't do it, doesn't mean that "your" info isn't out there. I would add in having production machines on the internet, but here we are with people loving their SaaS that has to be connected to the internet all the time. Same thing with cars and household appliances. Which at some point, rather or not a person wants them, if they aren't making the offline versions, it's going to be herculean task to avoid anything at that point without some major pains.

I do the best I can with what I have available. I someone does manage help themselves from me I'm consoled by how much fun it'll be getting it back. [apologies to the writers of 'Maverick' the Mel Gibson movie]

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I do the best I can with what I have a

I do the best I can with what I have available. I someone does manage help themselves from me I'm consoled by how much fun it'll be getting it back. [apologies to the writers of 'Maverick' the Mel Gibson movie]

"I just try to spread sunshine into everyone's lives" (Maverick the TV Show, Shady Deal at Sunny Acres).

 

[netsol]

I'll password, encrypt my own machines. Once someone else is involved that's where the issue start to unfold. Why I don't trust 3rd party backups either. I have a harder time with biometrics on many levels compared to passwords though.

For 2FA, I'll actually use a YubiKey compared to say the supposed "smartphone" (can't really do the cell phone thing when don't have one). That is just asking for issues. Even if the user is one of the more diligent users out there, there can still be issues with using a phone for that use case. Little bit different with a desktop, have more options with doing things that if nothing else add to the mental gymnastics of more security.




Ironically, even though "you" may not do it. Doesn't mean that "your" financial institution, medical institution hasn't done it for "you". That's the insidious part about it. Regardless if "you" do or don't do it, doesn't mean that "your" info isn't out there. I would add in having production machines on the internet, but here we are with people loving their SaaS that has to be connected to the internet all the time. Same thing with cars and household appliances. Which at some point, rather or not a person wants them, if they aren't making the offline versions, it's going to be herculean task to avoid anything at that point without some major pains.

my largest client uses an MSP since i "retired" 5 years ago.
i still am more involved in day to day than i should be.
they convinced me to install their sh**ty software on the laptop i remote into the system with.
STUPID ME. although i am global administrator still, the system constantly overrides me if i am working from home or office, i need to open a ticket to confirm the overridge.
no big deal.]
i discovered that they encrypted my hard drive and have not yet given me the encryption key.
this became an issue since for "security reason" the global administrator (me) can not access my own files, that existed in my personal user (the one that was on the laptop before i joined the domain I ADMINISTER jointly with them.

i often refer to them in meetings as a bunch of stupid children, playing with a complicated piece of software they will never understand

 

[WildWestDesigns]

my largest client uses an MSP...

That's the problem. Once interjecting a 3rd party under the auspice of security, backing up/storage or whatever nonsense it may be, that becomes just asking for trouble. With each layer of abstraction means more points of failure. And let's face it, no one but "you" is going to care about "your" data. They only care in so much as what they can harvest and sell to the next party.

I think there was even a Windows deal along the same lines, where it asked users to input a new password and if one didn't write that password down, no bueno if something went wrong. In of itself, something worth putting in there, the problem was MS didn't give it it's due notice to let people know that this is something important and they will need to remember it for a later date.