Wrap edges of your signs?

[Pete Moss]

Anyone here ever heard of wrapping around all of the edges of a standard polymetal sign with whatever vinyl you use? In all the shops I've worked in I've never heard of it, well, up until recently. I feel like moisture and dirt could build up inside the inside seam and contribute to possible failure. However, I don't have enough information to back this up.

Also, while we are on the subject, what is your favorite trimming method? I like to bleed the edges out just slightly, then trim but have seen a number of folks who like to print to exact size and usually avoid trimming.

Thanks in advance.

 

[rdm01]

Trimming on saw cut substrates = .25" bleed and run a #11 down the side to get a perfect edge.

We have a number of clients that prefer edge wrapped signage. I personally love the look. It gets nicer as the substrates get thicker (like 13mm PVC). We really "break" the edges and take time to get crisp pull around on both 90's, and then make sure we have about 1" on the back side to secure.

 

[Pat Whatley]

We have a few customers we do it for and failure has never been an issue.

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

3M actually recommends this method when using the 1160 graffiti laminate. It says to wrap all edges to back of sign panel.

 

[Pete Moss]

Thanks! Good info! I do like the way it looks when the colors wrap.

To simplify things, is it fair to ask which method is better? I know they probably have pros and cons, cleaner look, more material used, etc.

Regardless, if you had to choose one method over the other, is there a clear winner?

 

[Jack Knight1979]

I always wrap the edges of our signs here. Granted we paint/seal edges as needed first, then wrap.

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

Thanks! Good info! I do like the way it looks when the colors wrap.

To simplify things, is it fair to ask which method is better? I know they probably have pros and cons, cleaner look, more material used, etc.

Regardless, if you had to choose one method over the other, is there a clear winner?

For us all depends on the customer and the location of installation. What makes a better look in the given environment.

 

[DougWestwood]

bottom to top

Hey All,

I have wrapped both MDO and metal sign edges. For both to avoid weather/rain,
we wrap the edges from bottom to top. This will help seal it from falling rain, dripping snow/ice.
So, bottom flap folded over first, then sides, then top.

It also depends on how the rear side will be seen, if at all.
Good Luck!
- Doug
Vancouver
(rain city!)

 

[Pete Moss]

Hey All,

I have wrapped both MDO and metal sign edges. For both to avoid weather/rain,
we wrap the edges from bottom to top. This will help seal it from falling rain, dripping snow/ice.
So, bottom flap folded over first, then sides, then top.

It also depends on how the rear side will be seen, if at all.
Good Luck!
- Doug
Vancouver
(rain city!)

Good point, it makes sense to shingle the vinyl as one does with a vehicle wrap.

 

[player]

The edge of the sign board doesn't cut the lam?

Does moisture collect under the lam and cause problems? (MDO or aluma-ply?)

 

[DirtyD]

I have wrapped the edges of substrates but usually don't, and when I trim, I like to have the print bled .25" or whatever and use a metal file like shown to trim the excess away it gives a clean cut on the vinyl/print and rounds it just a hair so it doesn't want to peel up

 

[bob]

Unless specifically requested, why would anyone want to needlessly complicate things by wrapping the relatively miniscule edges of a sign? All it does is add something else that can go wrong and, even if done perfectly, adds little or nothing to the product.

If you must do a full bleed, and you should have tried to talk the client out of it, just apply the image ~1/4" over sized, flip the substrate over, and trim with an Xacto. Flip it back and run a felt squeegee down each edge at an angle to put the vinyl down on the properly dressed substrate edges. You did properly dress the edges, correct?

 

[player]

Unless specifically requested, why would anyone want to needlessly complicate things by wrapping the relatively miniscule edges of a sign? All it does is add something else that can go wrong and, even if done perfectly, adds little or nothing to the product.

If you must do a full bleed, and you should have tried to talk the client out of it, just apply the image ~1/4" over sized, flip the substrate over, and trim with an Xacto. Flip it back and run a felt squeegee down each edge at an angle to put the vinyl down on the properly dressed substrate edges. You did properly dress the edges, correct?

I am not sure... What does this entail?

 

[Gino]

I agree with bob, why are you adding these extra steps ??

If you don't/can't do it for a double sided sign, why make a single sided sign have more steps involved then a double sided ??

If you are worried about aesthetics or durability, why not put a piece of end cap specifically made just for this purpose on it ?? They make tools to make corner notches.

 

[bob]

I am not sure... What does this entail?

With aluminum composites you should reform the edges by running a rounded piece of metal, I use a brass bar but the shank of a large screw driver will work, down each edge at an ~ 45 degree angle. This reforms the edge such that it slightly curves down just like the factory edge.

With pvc, lumber, whatever, you lightly sand the edges with 300 or higher grit to slightly and smoothly round them down.

 

[TimToad]

The edge of the sign board doesn't cut the lam?

Does moisture collect under the lam and cause problems? (MDO or aluma-ply?)

Every time I've ever had a customer bring in a sign that had its print wrapped around the edges to the back to be redone, the material usually was starting to come off the back, moisture and crud were had usually worked their way in between the print and the edge, etc.

We all work with media, inks, laminates and substrates that have a life expectancy on average of 4-7 years maximum. I build signs and more specifically PRICE signs that are designed and fabricated with that in mind, unless it incorporates a far more durable process by customer choice. I can make an aluminum sign or use a few other substrates with a mask and paint coating for my graphics that exceeds that life span, but I think we're kidding ourselves if we think simply wrapping the edge of a panel with some 5 year media makes it last exponentially longer than that. I think it may even shorten the life.

 

[Gino]

Every time I've ever had a customer bring in a sign that had its print wrapped around the edges to the back to be redone, the material usually was starting to come off the back, moisture and crud were had usually worked their way in between the print and the edge, etc.

We all work with media, inks, laminates and substrates that have a life expectancy on average of 4-7 years maximum. I build signs and more specifically PRICE signs that are designed and fabricated with that in mind, unless it incorporates a far more durable process by customer choice. I can make an aluminum sign or use a few other substrates with a mask and paint coating for my graphics that exceeds that life span, but I think we're kidding ourselves if we think simply wrapping the edge of a panel with some 5 year media makes it last exponentially longer than that. I think it may even shorten the life.

I get the feeling, many of these people are trying to get more than 2 or 3 years. Not many here at s101 or other shops around the world expect things to last longer than a few years. Usually, because they don't know any better or just don't care. For people like you, me and some of the older generation here, we were used to signs going 20 or 25 years without much more than some brushstrokes starting to see through, but we prepped and handled things much differently back then. We were always thinking of selling the 'next sign' because we looked at it much as a trade, where only those who could do it that way.... survived. The rest just fizzled away.

 

[TimToad]

I hear ya, I haven't lived in Chicago since 1989 but when I go back for a visit there are actually still a few signs I did way back when still hanging in there.

For us its all about honesty, offering realistic expectations of longevity and minimizing customer blowback. If its meant to be a permanent sign, we don't blow smoke up our customer's rears by telling them the sign with last X number of years just to get the sale if we can't back it up. We try our best to match our material choices to the expected longevity and aesthetics the customer is hoping for.

All that being said, if somebody showed me that wrapping the edges of the print around to the back really improved the overall aesthetic or durability, I'd start doing it in a minute.

 

[Gino]

We don't wrap edges here, kind of surprised to hear that so many people do.

As for your common finishing technique Bob....do you have any product bulletins or documentation to support this, or is it just a personal theory?

(I've just never heard of this before, that's all)

I'm not answering for bob, but for most applications, this relieves the edge tension. Whether working with wood, metal or acrylics, you want to reduce the edge/corner tension. This is/was normal pratice by anyone in any finishing type businesses. just because you're finishing off with vinyl, doesn't equate to doing shoddy workmanship. Professionalism is always at the forefront, in most professional minds.

 

[Pete Moss]

Release of tension, less likely for moisture and dirt to accumulate, and along with being less time and cost, I think it's pretty clear which route will produce the best effect. I came into this inquiry with an open mind, yet also in the back of my mind thinking that the cons outweigh the pros for wrapping edges. Overwhelmingly, it seems also clear, that most of us are just wanting to do things that produce longevity and quality with our signs.

Just so you know Geno, you may be surprised to know how many folks got their start with hand painted signs. I worked doing that for four years before going the computer/vinyl route. I wouldn't have changed a thing. Thanks again Geno, Tim and everyone for there expertise as usual.

 

[Billct2]

I was also surprised to see that a lot of shops are wrapping the edges. I don't see any need for it and just adds time and maybe problems down the road.
For instance on ACM panels I don't think most vinyl would stick well to the plastic core so they could dry out & crack.
I have edge wrapped interior display panels occasionally and that can be a nice look on a thicker material.