Armed Forces night at my house - both wanting my daughter!

[skyhigh]

Maybe someone can help me out here because I ask every returning service person the question:"any idea of how many of the enemy you personally took out?". I honestly want to know what's wrong with the question. All I've heard so far is nobody wants to be asked about taking another human life. I haven't forgotten the images on my tv of the thousands of American lives ground up in collapsing buildings. As a nation, we were once pumped to avenge this when GWB said "let's roll" at the end of his speech about the attack. I'm too old to be there with a gun in my hand, but if I was, I like to think I'd openly discuss my success.

I'd equate it to putting your pet to sleep. Sometimes a necessity, just not something you want to relish/relive having to do. Even a mean and nasty pet....you still don't celebrate the killing of the animal. An ugly but necessary part of life. If you somehow find enjoyment in blowing someones head off, then you are as much an animal as the mean animal you had to put down.

Make any sense to you Arlo?

 

[Locals Find!]

Maybe someone can help me out here because I ask every returning service person the question:"any idea of how many of the enemy you personally took out?". I honestly want to know what's wrong with the question. All I've heard so far is nobody wants to be asked about taking another human life. I haven't forgotten the images on my tv of the thousands of American lives ground up in collapsing buildings. As a nation, we were once pumped to avenge this when GWB said "let's roll" at the end of his speech about the attack. I'm too old to be there with a gun in my hand, but if I was, I like to think I'd openly discuss my success.

I would like to take a crack at this. You take out the enemy because, that is what needs to be done. The military is not a large group of murderers or executioners. You don't think about the guy you shot at that stopped shooting back as a human being. You don't keep a tally of how many people you killed. You think to yourself that SOB stopped shooting then you follow your training, after its all over then you stop and think is my buddy ok?, is everyone else ok?, then am I ok? Then the next thought is HOLY F*CK I am still alive.

You kill because you have to protect your buddy, your unit, your squad, your family back home, and everyone else. Not because, your out to get revenge. Those who go out with that mindset get others killed or themselves. Its just about making it through everyday and getting yourself and as many of your buddies back home with you alive.

The bull of GWB saying lets roll is for cameras and to rile up support from the people back home its just drama. Keeping score is for books and movies. The reality is a dirty bloody F*cking mess. Filled with long hours of boredom followed by minutes of sheer crap your pants terror. Those who come home try to do their best to forget about it. Asking them how many people they killed is an Insult and it brings up memories they might just want to leave buried and not ever have to think about again.

 

[signage]

Those who come home try to do their best to forget about it. Asking them how many people they killed is an Insult and it brings up memories they might just want to leave buried and not ever have to think about again.

This might be one of Addies best posts

Now Arlo if the soldier was a sniper or in the special forces that question may be alright to ask, if they thought otherwise I think you would know

 

[10sacer]

REALLY??!!! THAT's ALL you got out of the ENTIRE post??! Wow ... Shallow Hal ain't got nothin on you, Addy!!! BTW - I am ex-Navy ... SO THE HELL WHAT??! Her choices had NOTHING to do with their branch of service, nor race!!!!!

Yeah... whenever we needed a ride somewhere we called on them NAVY boys. They did a real good job Just yanking yer chain...

There is a simple solution to this. Move to Utah and marry 'em both.

Look at it this way... ain't it a great problem to have to have two fine young men as choices for son-in-law? Sure beats having a grandson who wears a dog chain. (GEICO commercial).

Good luck

 

[randya]

Maybe someone can help me out here because I ask every returning service person the question:"any idea of how many of the enemy you personally took out?". I honestly want to know what's wrong with the question. All I've heard so far is nobody wants to be asked about taking another human life. I haven't forgotten the images on my tv of the thousands of American lives ground up in collapsing buildings. As a nation, we were once pumped to avenge this when GWB said "let's roll" at the end of his speech about the attack. I'm too old to be there with a gun in my hand, but if I was, I like to think I'd openly discuss my success.

I agree with skyhigh and Adtechia.

Any idea of how many innocents they personally took out doing exactly what Adtechia describes?

What 'success' would you be describing?
How many of 'these' people, both the 'enemy' and 'innocents' had anything to do with the collapsing buildings you mention?

 

[David Wright]

I agree with skyhigh and Adtechia.

Any idea of how many innocents they personally took out doing exactly what Adtechia describes?

What 'success' would you be describing?
How many of 'these' people, both the 'enemy' and 'innocents' had anything to do with the collapsing buildings you mention?

Well now you are just making too much sense.

 

[Rick]

Maybe someone can help me out here because I ask every returning service person the question:"any idea of how many of the enemy you personally took out?". I honestly want to know what's wrong with the question. All I've heard so far is nobody wants to be asked about taking another human life. I haven't forgotten the images on my tv of the thousands of American lives ground up in collapsing buildings. As a nation, we were once pumped to avenge this when GWB said "let's roll" at the end of his speech about the attack. I'm too old to be there with a gun in my hand, but if I was, I like to think I'd openly discuss my success.

I have never asked my dad how many men he killed in war, when he watches war movies he has run out of the room sobbing and he is a tough, big man, he is not proud of what he did, there is a certain amount of guilt involved. My grandfathers struggled till the end of his lives with what he had to do. My uncle was a prisoner of war and was never the same, my cousin killed himself, an uncle walks around homeless, a few more cousins are addicts and go through the VA system dealing with their problems. That is family, we can tell they don't view killing as a "success". it was their job, someone had to do it, so they did. The only thing they ever discussed was about food and friends, that was it. You can tell they avoided the bad part. Only kids asked and the response was "another time maybe"

I asked my dad if someone other than family asked how many people you killed in the war what your reaction would be, he said Unless they were there or in my unit, I would want to strangle them, but reply "None of your >cussy cussy< business"

 

[ForgeInc]

 

[Graphics2u]

All I've heard so far is nobody wants to be asked about taking another human life.

That's because killing is never a "success". You kill because they killed you. They Kill because you killed them. Sounds more like ultimate failure. It will never end with that mentality.

 

[Gino]

I wasn't in the military, but many of my family was and my wife's family were.

I know when talking about things, they tend to well up with tears and might stare or actually re-live some of those moments when they were trained machines made to kill and destroy. After they become human like again, they all have different ways of dealing with something that is basically against their core value.

In my opinion, there's never anything wrong with defending your home or land, but when you're sent to do a job such as this.... your patriotic duty calls you and you want to do your best.

I don't think there's anything specifically wrong with Arlo's question about the enemy, but I can see how it could affect some. A friend of mine.... his son was a point-man with his own ammo carrier person. He went through quite a few tours and would never brag or talk about this stuff. He elaborated on his guns, their weight, how much ammo he carried, but never what he thought or did while in action. One day.... after he got out..... he just started talking about what he did and did the chit hit the fan then. He told us what it was like, the enemy, how many he knew he took out, let alone how many he was thought to have taken out. He talked about blowing up military transports and buildings. He was the first guy in and saw lotsa action. Between him and his ammo carrier... he had just about every weapon you could imagine. I always imagines Rambo, except little Kenny had little muscles and wasn't on steroids. Anyway, he never again, that I know of, ever spoke about it again. Last I saw him, he was having a rough time fitting back into civilian life.

My neighbor was in the Nave during WWII and was on a tanker. He ran fuel and supplies all over the South Pacific. He was on the ship right next to where the Japanese surrendered. He witnessed the whole thing. He talks all the time about the war, but he never really saw any real fighting. They were shot at and made some quick getaways, but hardly ever fired their cannons at the enemy. They were well protected.

Guess it depends on who you ask...........

 

[iSign]

This will be the last time I respond on this thread...

just started this thread... and without moving one line past this comment... I'm going to gamble to commit $50 to S101, if this claim here is true...

...my guess is I will go back to the thread & find that Addie has already made a liar out of himself for this statement... but I'll put my money where my mouth is if I am wrong...

wait... the money thing is a stupid gamble,... hell this whole post is a stupid post... why the hell am I writing this?

maybe I should just delete it now?

maybe I'll change my gamble to investing an hour in some sort of helpful post? ...yeah... that's the ticket..

or, I could just commit to an hour counting unicorns... since I know I won't have to do it anyway

 

[Gino]

Since we're so close to Valentine's Day, yet.... you win a cupie doll.

 

[SD&F]

I am up up near the Rangers Training Camp(Merrill). I happen to talk to alot of these special soldiers. They are exceptional individuals who love their country and would do anything to protect their families. The ones who come back never speak about what they had to do or who they had to do it to. Though they are fulfilling they duty to the Country that allows them to do so, they are human beings and have to deal with the moral issues. I think that if they brag about it, they feel it inappropriate since they do value life. They are changed forever and yet would go back an complete another tour if they are asked to. "Freedom is NOT free". You are lucky to share your home with these men and I am sure that your daughter will remain friends with Alex.

 

[skyhigh]

I could just commit to an hour counting unicorns... since I know I won't have to do it anyway

:ROFLMAO:
Suppose you don't believe in the Easter Bunny either?

 

[sar bossier]

I am up up near the Rangers Training Camp(Merrill). I happen to talk to alot of these special soldiers. They are exceptional individuals who love their country and would do anything to protect their families. The ones who come back never speak about what they had to do or who they had to do it to. Though they are fulfilling they duty to the Country that allows them to do so, they are human beings and have to deal with the moral issues. I think that if they brag about it, they feel it inappropriate since they do value life. They are changed forever and yet would go back an complete another tour if they are asked to. "Freedom is NOT free". You are lucky to share your home with these men and I am sure that your daughter will remain friends with Alex.

+1 Barksdale AFB (where Bush landed 9/11/01) North Gate is 1/2 mile from my store, I see a LOT of service men/women EVERY DAY. Aye aye, brother!

 

[GypsyGraphics]

if there is even a chance you're being insensitive to someone who has served, with your question...
DON'T ASK! your curiosity doesn't matter.

saying "thank you for your service" means NOT HAVING TO SAY...
thank you for risking your life
thank you for do things you never wanted to do
thank you for witnessing things no one should ever have to see
and...
i'm thankful you made it home and i'm sorry you have to live with the knowledge that others didn't....
including (maybe especially) the ones who's life you took.

someone who comes back and can brag about how many deaths they were responsible for...
well, maybe someday they'll be held accountable for the pleasure they took in taking another's life.

don't you think any decent person must worries that that might be true for them too?
i don't think it's just insensitive to ask that question Dave... i think it's cruel.

 

[iSign]

I think the interesting thing about diversity is that among friends... when you don't know your peers inside and out... but you know them enough to respect them...

The interesting thing IS how diverse our perspectives can be... and often we might be shocked by a friends views... but even if we think something seems cruel (to us ...& I sorta agree with gg) ...because we trust our friends best intentions... it then expands our minds to realize that the variety of culture, upbringing, research and education... nature & nurture... and any number of other invisible factors causes people we respect to adopt perspectives we may not respect so much...

I find that fascinating...

The challenge then becomes conversing about diverse and sometimes even polar opposite beliefs... with an open mind and every effort to withhold judgement ...and THIS is where magic can happen too... communication is a powerful tool... and under the proper conditions I think we CAN expand each others minds... even when we never really influence another to re-adjust their views... BUT, even though I read it here every few months... on the topic of spirited debates... people always say "everyone argues, but nobody EVER convinces anyone to change their view"...

To that, I saw BS!!!!
This also is the interesting thing about diversity... among mutually respectful peers... it CAN happen... in fact it happens all the time... we all hold countless views about countless things... and we weren't born with them... do debate with respect and an open mind... It should never matter is opposing views shift into alignment... but a willingness to "allow" that possibility should NEVER leave us as we converse... That to me is real communication...

Otherwise it's just what my friend used to call "waiting for my turn to bore you back"

 

[SD&F]

After reading thru all of this again, I have to say that I agree that we won't all agree to what is acceptable, what is right and of course religious and political views. That being said...we are able to do this because of where we live. I think there is a large group of individuals, who forget that being able to express whatever we choose in however we please is a real freedom that many others cannot and will never experience. I hope I didn't BORE anyone.