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CJV150 & JV150 - Horribly Inaccurate Colors - Don't know what to do :(

FrankW

New Member
I did fine an i1 pro 2 for sale locally for a good price, but its the EFI version (I think it should still work?
Yes. It is just an OEM-Version. Dont buy a first EFI ES-1000 (old i1): there is a hardware UV-Cut-Filter integrated, so you cant measure all possible conditions. Not a problem with the ES-2000 (i1 Pro 2).

Unfortunately Mimaki has integrated calibration too (Ink Limits and Linearization) into MPM. So you HAVE TO use MPM3. For example with Roland, you can do calibration in Versaworks, so you can use any profiling software for creating the ICC. A used i1 Pro Publish package with i1 Profiler for CMYK-Profiles would be the solution in this case.
 

johnb554

New Member
Yes. It is just an OEM-Version. Dont buy a first EFI ES-1000 (old i1): there is a hardware UV-Cut-Filter integrated, so you cant measure all possible conditions. Not a problem with the ES-2000 (i1 Pro 2).

Unfortunately Mimaki has integrated calibration too (Ink Limits and Linearization) into MPM. So you HAVE TO use MPM3. For example with Roland, you can do calibration in Versaworks, so you can use any profiling software for creating the ICC. A used i1 Pro Publish package with i1 Profiler for CMYK-Profiles would be the solution in this case.
Understood.
I might just go ahead and buy the i1 pro 2 from this guy then, and hope that I can figure out software later.
I dont have access to MPM3 and nor does my mimaki tech, which I find weird, but perhaps there is someone on here who can lend or rent me a license for some time.
What do you think?
 

johnb554

New Member
That won't work for you. Those are specific to EFI.

EDITED TO SAY: In my experience of those who've tried the same.
This is the link to the specific one I am looking at.
So you dont think this will work with Mimaki MPM3 even though it is an i1 pro 2??
 

ColorCrest

All around shop helper.
So you dont think this will work with Mimaki MPM3 even though it is an i1 pro 2??
Quoted from the listing...
"The Item is used like new, SOLD AS IS, THE DEVICE HAS BEEN TESTED AND IS ON GOOD WORKING CONDITIONS, No license included.

All sales are final, Returns no accepted."

Buyer beware.
 

johnb554

New Member
Quoted from the listing...
"The Item is used like new, SOLD AS IS, THE DEVICE HAS BEEN TESTED AND IS ON GOOD WORKING CONDITIONS, No license included.

All sales are final, Returns no accepted.
"

Buyer beware.
Fair enough - This is why I am here asking if anyone has tried one of these on MPM3 specifically to see if it picks it up and works.
 

ColorCrest

All around shop helper.
I tried printing at half the passes, and the color is exactly the same.

Before you consider any profiling by yourself, I recommend you gather some more understanding and knowledge of the printing process to begin with.

First, you should be printing a control file, otherwise known as a "quality evaluation" file, so you and anyone else can make an informed baseline judgement of what steps to take in the case of any troubleshooting. A key component of the file is a gray scale to evaluate the color balance of the process to known standards. Also key is an actual gray scale in hand from the likes of Kodak or Tiffen. The cool gray swatches from a Pantone book may be used as a temporary and rough substitute.

TiffenGrayScale.jpg


Second, learn and understand how to install and use the proper ICC profiles for both input and output of the process and their effects on production. (The above settings you've posted earlier are incorrect.)

Third, know that Mimaki seems to have a serious challenge with translating technical language and standard terminology to their english publications. That fact makes it very difficult for one to initially learn the process using their documentation compared to more typical instructions from other sources.

More later if I find the time.

For now, print a control file. What has Mimaki provided for such?
 

Solventinkjet

DIY Printer Fixing Guide
This might raise more questions than answers but see my print out below from a CJV150.

The print circled in green is your EPS file unedited and it looks a lot like your output. The print circled in blue is the original PDF from your customer, which had tons of clipping masks and weird file stuff going on btw. The print circled in red is what printed when I took a screenshot of the customer file and saved it as a TIFF. This leads me to a file issue of some sort but it's just weird that your Roland printer friend was able to print it correctly without changing anything. You might ask them if they did change anything.

color-test.jpg
 

johnb554

New Member
Before you consider any profiling by yourself, I recommend you gather some more understanding and knowledge of the printing process to begin with.

First, you should be printing a control file, otherwise known as a "quality evaluation" file, so you and anyone else can make an informed baseline judgement of what steps to take in the case of any troubleshooting. A key component of the file is a gray scale to evaluate the color balance of the process to known standards. Also key is an actual gray scale in hand from the likes of Kodak or Tiffen. The cool gray swatches from a Pantone book may be used as a temporary and rough substitute.

View attachment 157280

Second, learn and understand how to install and use the proper ICC profiles for both input and output of the process and their effects on production. (The above settings you've posted earlier are incorrect.)

Third, know that Mimaki seems to have a serious challenge with translating technical language and standard terminology to their english publications. That fact makes it very difficult for one to initially learn the process using their documentation compared to more typical instructions from other sources.

More later if I find the time.

For now, print a control file. What has Mimaki provided for such?
I totally hear where you are coming from. Here are some of my challenges.

The tech here from Mimaki is AWFUL.
There was never a control file. He prints a picture and says oh it prints.
No training, No setup of the input profiles. NOTHING.
When I call them to ask, its excuse after excuse, and I am basically told I am on my own.

I do understand from a basic standpoint (I am no expert, and have ltos to learn) how the output and input profiles work, however on RasterLink with any of the canned profiles, you CAN NOT modify the input profile.
As you have seen in my screenshot, the settings are greyed out, and I cannot create an input preset either for any of the canned profiles to change the input profile to match the profile I am working with in illustrator.
I have, however tried changing the color space in illustrator to say Adobe RGB as that is what rasterlink is set to, versus SWOP v2 or sRGB, and there is literally very little or no percievable different on the printed output.

If you have any suggestions for recommended settings that I CAN change on my end, please let me know. I can do the research on my own to figure out why and how that works if I do not already know, as I dont want to waste your time explaining that, however right now I am in such a pickle and I literally just cant get anything accurate coming out the end of this printer, with the exception of a super limited gamut of colors.

I did some test prints and tried some different profiles, and I am finding that the orafol 3691 canned profile, and rasterlink color matching preset set to Mimaki Expand Color is giving me the "best" results, but they are no means even acceptable. Something else has to give.
I have also tried putting print ready docs right into rasterlink without even touching them in illustrator to see if something in my color space setup there could be the problem, also to no avail and no difference in output.

I would love to switch to a better rip, but with the state of the local economy here, and the fact that most of our business comes from events and such, and the whole coronavirus thing, we just dont have it in the books to be able to do that. From what I understand, if Mimaki is making a product and selling it for good friggin money, then it should at least work to an acceptable degree.
 

johnb554

New Member
This might raise more questions than answers but see my print out below from a CJV150.

The print circled in green is your EPS file unedited and it looks a lot like your output. The print circled in blue is the original PDF from your customer, which had tons of clipping masks and weird file stuff going on btw. The print circled in red is what printed when I took a screenshot of the customer file and saved it as a TIFF. This leads me to a file issue of some sort but it's just weird that your Roland printer friend was able to print it correctly without changing anything. You might ask them if they did change anything.

View attachment 157281
This does indeed raise a lot more questions.
So.. I actually tried the same thing, and printed the EPS file, and then printed the PDF file (put directly into rasterlink) and there is NO difference. Both look very similar to the one that you have circled in green. What the actual F is going on here.

Can you advise on your settings in rasterlink and the file workflow, to see if I am missing something here?
I think th eone you have circled in blue is actually acceptable. Which profile are you running?
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Are you sure you don't have any ink passing over to another line, creating some cross contamination ??
 

johnb554

New Member
Are you sure you don't have any ink passing over to another line, creating some cross contamination ??
100% - Head checks look clean on each nozzle and does not look conaminated.
Also, we have 2 printers, and both do the same thing. Chances of both having cross contamination is pretty low I think?
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
If both are doing it exactly alike, then I propose you have some human error going on. Did they ever print correctly ??
 

johnb554

New Member
If both are doing it exactly alike, then I propose you have some human error going on. Did they ever print correctly ??
Still working on it. Looks like SolventInkjet had some better luck with another profile on his CJV150, so I am gonna try loading those on my end to see if I can replicate what his output looks like, because from what we know or assume, he has a properly working printer in his shop.
 

FrankW

New Member
That won't work for you. Those are specific to EFI.

EDITED TO SAY: In my experience of those who've tried the same.

I have an ES-1000, and it works fine as an i1 Pro with MPM3.

I have none, but I‘m pretty shure that the ES-2000 (i1 Pro 2) can be used too as i1 Pro 2-compatible. I know other i1 OEMs, and I know that in the EFI RIPs the driver is the same.
 

netsol

Active Member
did you somehow end up running the wrong ink set? not chemistry, colorspace
CMYKLcLm or CMYK Orange Green for example?
 

netsol

Active Member
I have an ES-1000, and it works fine as an i1 Pro with MPM3.

I have none, but I‘m pretty shure that the ES-2000 (i1 Pro 2) can be used too as i1 Pro 2-compatible. I know other i1 OEMs, and I know that in the EFI RIPs the driver is the same.
i have like 6 of those, they need to NOT have the UV cut filter
those are for print industry.

I am currently using the ES-2000 (no UV cut) with flexi 19
 

johnb554

New Member
I have an ES-1000, and it works fine as an i1 Pro with MPM3.

I have none, but I‘m pretty shure that the ES-2000 (i1 Pro 2) can be used too as i1 Pro 2-compatible. I know other i1 OEMs, and I know that in the EFI RIPs the driver is the same.
Good info. Thats at least a bit reassuring.
Would you have any insight on where I can get the software without paying an absolute arm and a leg for it?
 
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