Gold Leaf Help

[SellersSign&Design]

I have been working on gold leaf gilding. Everything seems to go alright until I get to the turning part. When I turn the leaf, it almost seems like it is gouging it. Then it really sticks out when the sealer is applied. I am using a cut up Crown Royal bag stuffed with cotton to do the turning (this was reccomended on the internet), and waiting 5-10 minutes after the leaf is applied. What am I doing wrong here???

Before the sealer was applied:

After sealer:



Sealer only on top half:

 

[Billct2]

You may need to wait longer before spinning, even longer for the clear.
What are you spinning with? I usually use a dowel or something like that, put
a little cotton wad on then wrap with velvet, it should be a flat tool when done.

 

[SellersSign&Design]

I tried spinning with a dowel with cotton and felt like you mentioned, and also just a section of the crown royal bag stuffed with cotton and tied off. There really isn't much information out there on how long to wait after laying the leaf before spinning, but I will try again and wait a little longer like you said. How long should I wait before I put the sealer on?

 

[JR's]

It looks like you tried to turn the gold too soon. Try waiting longer. On some projects I wait the next day. use a clean piece of velvet .and you don't need a lot of pressure.
It looks like you could wait a little bit longer before you lay your goal. You'll get a higher sheen.
And it looks like you burnished top to bottom, I like to burnish right to left you get more reflection from the gold.
Hope this helps.

 

[JR's]

get this book Gold Leaf Techniques by Raymond J. Leblanc. Revised by Arthur o. Sarti

 

[Z SIGNS]

Looks like you put the leaf on before the size was at the right tack.I've found engine turn is done best using slow size with the leaf applied at the proper tack.No need to clear coat unless its going on the cab doors of truck or somewhere where it will be touched. Also get rid of the royal crown bag and get real velvet.Get the book

 

[letterman7]

Yup, spinning way too soon, and it looks like you didn't let the size dry long enough. As mentioned, purchase real velvet and stuff with cotton. I'll sometimes wait until the next day to spin the gold.

 

[round man]

over the years We probably spun enough gold leaf to be called rumplestiltskin at the firetruck dealership we serviced..after engine turning two or more packs of gold a week for a couple of years the guy I worked with made a set of "spinits" that were later sold by Sepp Leaf...they fit in a slow turning cordless drill and did an exceptional job of engine turning gold leaf...there were several tricks that we incorporated into the process that really made them work well...in fact the tools were less important than the technique to use them was....

1st let the gold size set as long as possible before gilding...the longer the size takes to tack the better the luster of the gild.....make sure the size has been strained and is free of dust and debris that can ruin your efforts in the beginning once you start to spin it.....as thin a layer of size as possible with the least number of brush strokes to cover the area to be gilded is most desired for the best luster in the gild and it is imperative you avoid any thick sagging spots in the size

2nd find some old velvet (we used to get ours at an antique clothing store)

3rd we would immediately after gilding wipe all the excess leaf off gently with the soft side of the velvet and in an even horizontal motion to give the gold a gentle even burnish with a very subtle even horizontal burnish,.....

4th we would take a tool very similar in shape to a large socket on a spindle and fill the hollow of the socket with cotton and or very soft upholstery foam then pad that with cotton(usually we would end up with about a 1/4" of padding between any hard surfaces and the covering) all this was covered with two layers of velvet wrapped tightly with a smooth surface (with no wrinkles in the fabric only 2 even smooth layers)....

5th we would spin the gold immediately after step three,.. while we used a cordless drill it can be done with your hand ...the trick to the technique is to keep an even pressure directly perpendicular to the surface and spin the tool evenly without leaning one way or the other to create and even round very light spin into the gold while polishing it at the same time. I have used electric screwdrivers among other rotary tools,...... the trick is not too fast or it will burn the gold and too slow it will not polish the gold for that high burnish engine turn that is desirable...

once you have the desired effect in the burnish simply clear and seal the gold with a very fine clear varnish or automotive clear depending on the application

the best advice I can offer here is to have someone to show you the process and still be prepared to practice the technique well before you will be able to do it well enough to sell a quality effort to your clients with confidence,.....


edited to add.......I'm an hr and a half north of the track where you are in Winston if ya need help...pm me

 

[SignosaurusRex]

What Round Man says...That's it in a nutshell!

 

[Billct2]

Great description Roundman. but you're right watching it done then careful practice is the only way to learn. I'd recommned doing it by hand till you learn then go to the drill. I still do it almost all by hand, but then it's a rare treat these days.

 

[JR's]

What round man said. Good post.
I would like to add I had the privilege of being taught by a master almost 30 years ago. And he told me to get real velvet not the imitation stuff and not crushed velvet.
I had purchased a 1 yard square and I still have some today. I don't know what the difference would be. Just food for thought.
PS I am still not as good as my teacher. They were gold leafing things weekly whereas myself maybe three times a year.

 

[Jillbeans]

I think you are not waiting long enough to gild, and also applying your size a bit too thick.
Always make a test panel (you can use anything, like a tin can lid) at the same time you do your sizing, so you are dragging your knuckle on the test panel rather than your "good" piece.

If using a mask, cut a thin contour or outline around it, then remove this part immediately after thinly applying your size so you're not getting a "lip", it looks like a lip on the edges of the S you depict.

I have been gilding for well over 10 years and I still suck at it, flood my gold, don't wait long enough or wait too long.
Love....Jill

 

[SellersSign&Design]

Well, with the help of the great advice from all of you and a new can of Rolco size (which by the way is much better than what I was using) I finally ended up with a halfway decent gold leaf stripe. Don't pay any attention to the black stripes, I know they look horrible. Pinstriping is a whole new art I'm trying to learn.

 

[Jillbeans]

If you can find another can of Rolco, grab it, as they had to halt production due to damage from Superstorm Sandy.
Try using a SwirlyQ brush for pulling long lines.
I prefer Ronan lettering enamel's black over that of 1Shot.

 

[Mike Paul]

Looks like your gold size is too thick, leaf applied too early when wet, and spun too soon tearing it.

The tack of the size is very important. Fast size has a short window maybe an hour or so, slow size has a longer window to apply the leaf up to 24 hrs and produces a richer Gild.

Best to be patient before burnishing. Next day is fine...
I burnish lightly w/ cotton horizontally to brighten it and then engine turn.

Proper velvet is key not the stiff hard imitation stuff.

I'd highly recommend hand burnishing to get the feel and pressure correct.

Take some cotton, roll it up in a very tight ball and wrap w/ velvet and a rubber band.
Make a few different sizes depending on the lettering size.

Start turning before you hit the leaf and don't go too deep.

.

 

[round man]

Mike Paul

Looks like your gold size is too thick, leaf applied too early when wet, and spun too soon tearing it.​

Exactly the problem,.....if you consider the thickness of the gold leaf compared to the adhesive(size) one can compare it to paper and simple grade school paste...no way you would want a layer of paste five times as thick as the paper you intend to glue down with it...but thats what you get with size and gold.....thats one of the reasons one had to have quite a bit of experience lettering (a decade or more) back when the process of fire apparatus gilding was all done directly on the vehicle by hand before they were given a chance to learn firetruck gilding.....the had to be able to get the lettering right on the first stroke without sloppy sags and with very few overlapping strokes to keep the layer of size thin yet cover the area to gild,....the thin layer of size dried quickly allowing the gilding process to take place sooner... no book on the subject will tell you this but here in the carolina's we used to add a couple of drops of thinner and a couple drops of penetrol to the size to get better flow,(about four drops of each to shot [1/2 oz} of size).....and ultimately with a thinner, even layer of size in this summer heat & humidity,...

edited to add,.....try tape on the outside of your stripes,....at least one side of the line will be straight,...

 

[SignManiac]

add a couple of drops of thinner and a couple drops of penetrol to the size to get better flow,(about four drops of each to shot [1/2 oz} of size).....and ultimately with a thinner, even layer of size

This...


I learned from an old friend who was a master of the gold. He specialized in high dollar yachts and passed on his tricks to me before his untimely death at an all too young age.
A paper thin even layer of size and a ton of patience. I would often be laying gold at 3:00 a.m. in the morning because when your tack is optimal, you better be ready! And as has been said, once your gold is down, you can wait many hours before you need to spin your gold. Even a day later. The harder that size gets, the more pressure you can use to burnish. And I always used a cordless drill and never worried about burning the gold. Gold leaf is more about the art of patience.