I need help re: City banning banners.

[Smittywrk]

City council proposing making it harder to display banners. I need to send info to my local chamber director regarding the city's proposal to limit the size & duration of banners.
This is the same city whose politicians just had the city littered with their political signs for the last 2 months. I would really like to send them a survey from other than a sign co. possibly some ivy league college describing how effective banners are. If you know of any surveys or have any information I can reference for the city council to help veto this restriction, please post a link here. In this economy, we sign guys do NOT need any more restrictions on our business! Thanks!

 

[Wes Phifer]

ISA usually has some useful materials.

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

Interesting, the exact opposite of around here (I guess 1 thing makes sense).

 

[Smittywrk]

Thanks, Wes. I'll start with them and see what I can find. Good old California, where business is treated as a parasite!

 

[Fitch]

Banners are short term and should not be up for any longer than say 3 months.

A banner is a short term promotional avenue, NOT a sign, and as such I am with council on this one.

Believe it or not, if banners were used for the purpose they were intended, it would actually generate more income, rather than tight fisted clients who want the cheapest for the longest.

So I have to go against "In this economy, we sign guys do NOT need any more restrictions on our business!"

If restrictions were in place, people would spend more on permanent signage and pay the appropriate fees.

Generally speaking a banner is a take away item, so you do not collect an install fee... so opportunity there.

Because they are so "cheap", many clients do not give due consideration to the artwork involved.

So again, generally speaking you do not pick up a design fee. Opportunity.

When a design fee is in place, the standard (graphically and aesthetically) by nature increases.

Increased design standards equate to more generation of a second tier income such as pure design, for leaflets, business cards etc.

Because there are less banners being produced due to available funds, inherantly the unit cost by rights should increase - we all have to make a living.

As a business, it may also very well "force" some to look outside of pure digital printing, developing other skills such as vinyl, paint, dimensional, etc etc... and that can only be good for the industry as a whole.

The more people are "forced" to pay for signage the better - we will all be financially advantaged for it.

Just some random thoughts and my 02c.

 

[Rick]

What is the proposal?

El Monte already has restrictions that are similar to most cities in the state...

here is what the El Monte site says...

I would like to display a banner to increase the visibility of my business, am I required to obtain a permit?

Yes, a no fee temporary sign permit must be obtained prior to the display of any banner. An application for a temporary sign permit may be obtained at the Planning Division counter on the second floor of City Hall West. A banner may be displayed for a maximum of thirty (30) days in a six month (180 day) period.

Fitch may have a point, but the reality is different in California... I'm thinking Smittywrk only has a D-42 contractors license if he (or she) is concerned about banners, so they are slightly limited to what you can offer, with no contractors license, you can only offer banners, vehicle graphics and jobs dealing with buildings or signs under the municipal code under 500 bucks

 

[binki]

Dude, you are in East LA where most citiy councils there are in the county pokey. Go to your county prosecutor to throw them all into jail.

They already did it in Bell, Vernon, and San Bernardino County. No reason El Monte is any different. Call the AG, Jerry Brown.

 

[Rick]

Dude, you are in East LA where most citiy councils there are in the county pokey. Go to your county prosecutor to throw them all into jail.

They already did it in Bell, Vernon, and San Bernardino County. No reason El Monte is any different. Call the AG, Jerry Brown.

You forgot San Jacinto too...

 

[Signguyno1]

Banners are temporary signage!
The problem is when business owners decide that the low price of the banner is far better than the price of a permanent sign.
This is what tears at the root of your professional sign company and lowers the standard of the business community!
Nothing worse than seeing your retail stores all displaying worn banners for their identification!
It's sort of like all the driveway pavers with magnetic signs on their vehicles, like shouting here today gone tommorow.:Oops:

 

[Craig Sjoquist]

ISA and other sign associations if you belong some will send lawyers to help

 

[Billct2]

USSC has a lot of good info on sign codes

 

[John L]

I'd be happy to see them zoned away in the areas I work in. I'd say that regardless if I sold signs or not.

 

[Joe Diaz]

City council proposing making it harder to display banners. I need to send info to my local chamber director regarding the city's proposal to limit the size & duration of banners

Not enough information here. What are they making harder? In other words: Could you quote the part(s) of the code that you disagree with. What sizes are they limiting it to, and what's the longevity. or are you upset with any limitations on size and duration. You also say "making it harder" which I read as it wasn't as hard before. So were there no restrictions on sizes and durations before, or have they just changed the sizes and durations? If they just changed those limits, that would be where I would start. What lead to the decision to make that change and why weren't the original size and duration limits adequate?

Like others have stated, I personally don't think banners should be long term alternative for permanent signs. So IF that is what the code is attempting to stop, it isn't necessarily a negative thing.

Banners that have outlived their normal life span are eyesores and bad for business for the business owners, towns, and sign shops... but most importantly they can be dangerous. If all business owners who purchased banners used common sense and used them correctly there would be no need for these rules, but they don't.

So all this really depends on what exactly your city council is doing.

 

[SignManiac]

Even though I sell them, I'm all for seeing them banned forever, but I know that will never happen. Unfortunately, they have become one of the worst blights on our communities. Visual pollution second only to snipe signs.

Our city has an ordinance allowing them for short term use, but it's never been enforced. We have banners that have been up for years being used as permanent signs in order to circumvent buying a professional sign that would last. But...even the permanent signs I see going up aren't much better. Poorly designed, ugly signs being installed on good substrates is the mainstream.

The problem is not the medium, it's the designers, or lack there of. I would venture a guess that 80% of the signs shops worldwide, have zero education in even basic design. Can't even recognize common fonts, half are color blind except when it comes to red and black, and think the only script in the world is brush script.

I'm in this business a long time and I can't wait to get out. I'm going to hang a new shingle outside and become a surgeon. To hell with going to school for it. I have a sh!tload of exacto knives around the shop. Who wants to be my first patient? I can do it cheaper than a real M.D.

 

[Techman]

So I have to go against "In this economy, we sign guys do NOT need any more restrictions on our business!"

WE have to fight every single resitriction that comes along. Simply because there is always the creep factor.

In this area we have 5 cities all on each other. One has allowed teh creep factor to the point that businesses are leaving that town and moving to another. They do not allow banners unless you pay a huge fee making them not cost affective. That plus the other "restrictions just about make it impossible for any but one local company to do business there.

Government regulations are getting out of hand. Its time to fight each an every single new idea that comes along.

Just some examples. The FDA is making it difficult to operate cottage food industries. They almost put small honey and maple syrup producers out of bizz over their inspection requirements until there was a small uprising locally.
In some places heirloom veggie seeds are now banned. Do we really need this type of intrusion?

We do not want or need any more restrictions on any small business. Banners or otherwise.

 

[John L]

Even though I sell them, I'm all for seeing them banned forever, but I know that will never happen. Unfortunately, they have become one of the worst blights on our communities. Visual pollution second only to snipe signs.

Our city has an ordinance allowing them for short term use, but it's never been enforced. We have banners that have been up for years being used as permanent signs in order to circumvent buying a professional sign that would last. But...even the permanent signs I see going up aren't much better. Poorly designed, ugly signs being installed on good substrates is the mainstream.

The problem is not the medium, it's the designers, or lack there of. I would venture a guess that 80% of the signs shops worldwide, have zero education in even basic design. Can't even recognize common fonts, half are color blind except when it comes to red and black, and think the only script in the world is brush script.

I'm in this business a long time and I can't wait to get out. I'm going to hang a new shingle outside and become a surgeon. To hell with going to school for it. I have a sh!tload of exacto knives around the shop. Who wants to be my first patient? I can do it cheaper than a real M.D.

Bob. There was a guy with a toe nail issue on here a little while back. He's probably about ready now. Don't forget those little follow up visit cards and set yourself up an overseas billing department.

 

[showcase 66]

About a year ago, the city council hired a guy to do a revision to our sign code and really look at the car lots and banners. The guy was on the city council somewhere in California. They made it where no banners can be up other than grand opening. No balloons, flags, streamers, or things of this nature. Once they passed it, all HELL broke loose.(of course the most of the people pissed off never showed up to the original meetings to voice their concerns).
Once people showed up fighting the new codes, the city council backed down and formed a group of city officials and business owners to hammer out the details of a new sign code. It took almost 8 months to finalize and even after they did, I have found multiple errors in it.
The biggest problem we have is people moving here from California. I have nothing against anyone from there or live there just hate when they come here and want us to be like it was in Cali. You talk to them and they say "I had to get away from all the BS of Cali living and the restrictions there" then they turn around and try and make our town to be more like California. Absolutely hate it.

I agree with our banner codes we have now and the fact that they actually enforce the codes is great. When anyone buys a banner and pick it up I give them a permit packet to fill out. It is free and takes maybe 3 mins to fill out. I tell them I will fill it out for $25 but have never had anyone take me up on it.

Make sure you voice your concerns and opinions with them. Also get all the other sign shops and business owners to do the same. If they see people are against something that in the end could hurt their business, they may reconsider the new codes. It really helps that they are elected officials and if they piss off enough of the wrong people, they will be gone soon enough.

 

[SignManiac]

John, please send him to me if you remember who it was. I'll pay you a finders fee. I've just about finished hitting the print button on my new doctors banner that's going up today!