John Don't Go!

[studebaker]

Cartoon Script...

John, I particularly enjoyed your Basketball "Cartoon Script" Analogy. I enjoy/ learn from "learned" arguments that occasionally pop up here on the forum.

When it resorts to simple name calling and not reasoned, rational points of view, it's not worth the price of admission.

 

[Rick]

Without my business partner from holding me back, I got to do
this... well, till she sees it...

I've read similar post as Bob's and I can see some of that going
on at various forums... Means nothing to me cuz it's like, where do
I belong in that... well, I'm secure enough to know why I'm here.

Still have to wonder how those definitions apply to the 3 designers
he went after. We've never discussed it amongst ourselves, never
PMd each other about it I have never had to send an email or
message to anyone about this behavior.

Seems to me the clique are the ones gaining favor from other
members. Got an email today about how a certain member was
rallying members together while this was going on, since I don't
know the email address and I don't want to play, I'm just going
to ignore it and ignore the troll. I got work man, this is supposed
to be a positive distraction, if I want drama, I'd go talk to my kids
about their picky *** problems... some of you like the drama...

I thought Player's comment about "haters gonna hate" was
appropriate but for the wrong person.

Keep making excuses up for this clown, but this is high school
behavior on a business forum... this is business. WTF do I care
if another anonymous name pops up schooling us about forum
social behavior and his idea that these are just words and
pictures, He's got nothing to lose.

Anyone seeking to harm a reputation has the potential to hurt
someones business. By the way, a member some years back
called my old boss, would still like to kick that guys ***. You
get called, out, your business called out, where you work
called out... it's more than words f'er... again, I worked my
*** off, slept on the floor, been harassed by my mentors... I'm
52 and answer to no bitter, probably narcissist, and definitely has
some mental issues oldfart. Again, I'm here for my benefit.

I do believe no one gets off free from criticism. And I'm pretty
sure we are open to it... even though it might sting a little...

We are designers, we can be delicate flowers...
Just don't f*ck with my business.

So when people question this members motives about wanting the
pic removed I have to wonder... were any of you part of his success?
Any have the years and years of stuggle he went through to get to
that point? Sure as hell John Butto of whoever this clown is, is not
the guy to do it. Any of you critical of this designer having had the lame
pic pulled down, where do you work so you can be exposed to your employers
wrath? You losing anything from it by having it removed... Or you doing all
that great where you can be as critical... what business can you lose...
again, who are you in the grand scheme of things when it comes to any of
these designers hard work.

Oh yeah, y'all like drama.

No one goes out and designs good just have have their looks and salary
questioned... None of Butto's business. Using my thread to get at that
designer was a pu$$y move. JB needs to do a better job at insulting with
a purpose, or shut the hell up, post his cute doodles and advice and if
he feels the need to rebel, don't cry about it later when someone
has to moderate it.

 

[HulkSmash]

John and I email back and forward quiet often. He's a good guy with a lot of knowledge. I havn't been around very much because we have just been insane for the past 2 years, and um because there are some odd balls on here.. but that's besides the point.


But i can vouch for John - Good guy. Funny, smart, and trust me you want to know most of the things he has to say.

 

[player]

I guess he shouldn't do anymore cartoons or jokes about members here...

 

[Bly]

Just because a person is offended doesn't mean they are right.

 

[Rick]

I guess he shouldn't do anymore cartoons or jokes about members here...

I think he should keep doing them, just don't mess with a person's business...
keep your animosity to yourself or if you want to show it, suffer the consequences.

It's all there... his admission

It's more than cartoons, pictures and jokes so get off it. No one knows "player"
no one may ever know "player"... you are shielded because you have not revealed
yourself so you have nothing to lose. I shielded myself too, at least I thought i did till
someone called my boss. Once you've had that happen, you tend to be a little more
aggressive about protecting your interests. I took off my personal information cuz
I don't want some self appointed forum czar to mess with my work... but someone
can still mess with it if they felt the need.

 

[player]

I am player 'cause I play guitar.

There are very few places on the internet that I don't keep my anonymity. I guess this is why...

 

[Rick]

I am player 'cause I play guitar.

There are very few places on the internet that I don't keep my anonymity. I guess this is why...

And that's my point.. again, he can draw all the cute
pictures he wants... he knows his sign stuff, but why
mess with a person's livelihood while hiding behind a
fake name. It does not make him the head rebuker,
makes him seem pathetic cuz he can hide behind his
fake identity with only our moderator to keep him in
check... he does not impress me... so why play with him?

I just saw some more pics he sent to another member...
he's been targeting these designers a lot longer than I
thought.. really very strange.

 

[player]

Do you really think it is malicous or just a sense of humour gone a little too far?

Artists are not the same as everyone else... If he has crossed a line, he may not have been aware of it...

 

[bob]

...Artists are not the same as everyone else... If he has crossed a line, he may not have been aware of it...

Everyone is the same as everyone else.

There are no lines, there exists nothing in the entire external reality, nothing, nada, zip, zero, that cannot, or even better, should not be laughed at. Lines over which some are accused of stepping are those things drawn by others in order to fence people in. In an attempt to force them to alter their behavior such that the line drawer's prejudices are accommodated.

it's everyone's duty to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable. [Apologies to Finley Peter Dunne] There is no ox that cannot or should not be gored.

 

[SignosaurusRex]

...it's everyone's duty to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable. [Apologies to Finley Peter Dunne] There is no ox that cannot or should not be gored.

Shall we all begin the ritual of 'Casting Lots'?

 

[HDvinyl]

Sorry but I need pictures...
Here is the evidence with the cyber bullying removed...

 

[Techman]

fake identity

There are no fake identities here. There are online handles. Or, online nick names.

Online nicknames were started decades ago to prevent trolls from discovering victims. Over the years the nick name system worked well enough the tradition continues to this day. Yes, too many people online have been stalked when using real names. Many have been stalked using a nick name. However, a nick name slows down a troll even if just a little bit. At least then a potential victim has a chance to do something about it.

Yes, one can discover who it is behind those nicknames. It doesn't take a genius. But, a tourist troll will be delayed in the quest to discover a victims real name. After time a real identity comes out anyway.

 

[Joe Diaz]

You know, I was thinking about this whole thing this morning. It's extremely easy for someone like bob, or I should say someone playing "bob", or anyone else who's afraid to log in with their real name, who will hide behind a fake persona protected by anonymity, to say "words are just words" and that "they are incapable of any harm at all". If someone truly felt this way, there would be no danger at all using their real name. Yet they don't. So for those people who say "words are just words" as they hide behind anonymity, I say "Talk is cheap"

And let's be perfectly clear here, no one is claiming bodily harm. No one is claiming the world has ended just because someone made fun of someone else. No one has asked John to leave, the only real overreaction I see here is him playing the victim and choosing to leave. Which in my opinion is like "So what?" He can just log in as someone different since no one knows who he is. So he chooses to leave, but really doesn't and we are supposed to beg him to stay???

People like this are free to say whatever they want with no consequences at all, other than being "censored" or kicked off(and again, John hasn't been kicked off). And really that isn't that big of deal at all considering they could simply log in again as someone new. Now I'm not saying that all people who choose to keep their identity hidden do so just so they can act a certain way that wouldn't be socially acceptable in the real world. Some just want to be shielded from the crazies of the world, you know like the guy who's drawn multiple images of you, who sends you weird cryptic messages, then gets really upset if you are away from the computer for a while and didn't respond back quickly enough, someone who has targeted you because in his own words "people were sweatin him and everyone thinks he is great." huh?

If some of you have seen some of the PMs I've gotten, some that I can only imagine Rick and others have received, some from John, some from other anonymous people, some from people who weren't even anonymous, some sent to my mom (who does that?), you would know what I'm talking about. If only some of you knew.

I don't know who this guy is, he could be anyone, he could live anywhere, he could be unstable, he has shown signs of being unstable, maybe not to most of you, but to some of us. He knows where I work, could easily find where I live. So when another person on here has had enough of it and asks Fred to step in, I cannot say I fault him for that.

So yeah, I can see the appeal of being anonymous and having that buffer between yourself and people like that. I sometimes wish I had started an anonymous account from the get go. In fact I sometimes wonder if I could create an anonymous profile and use that at any point (Fred?). Not just so that I can pretend to be someone else and treat others like garbage, just so I can participate without any risk. Like Rick pointed out, our businesses are attached to this and in my case my family is also attached as well.

It's sad that one would even consider that, being that this is supposed to be a professional forum (and for the most part it is). But here we are. I hope some of you can see where I'm coming from here.

 

[player]

Most forum admins have tools that ban ip addresses and other things so it is not so easy anymore to sign back up once banned from a forum.

 

[Joe Diaz]

Most forum admins have tools that ban ip addresses and other things so it is not so easy anymore to sign back up once banned from a forum.

No one has banned John.

 

[player]

I know. You were saying if you get banned you just sign up as someone else, but it is not that easy anymore...

 

[Fred Weiss]

So yeah, I can see the appeal of being anonymous and having that buffer between yourself and people like that. I sometimes wish I had started an anonymous account from the get go. In fact I sometimes wonder if I could create an anonymous profile and use that at any point (Fred?). Not just so that I can pretend to be someone else and treat others like garbage, just so I can participate without any risk. Like Rick pointed out, our businesses are attached to this and in my case my family is also attached as well.

Registering for a second account for the same individual is not permitted. It can probably be done but there are a number of ways in place to prevent it. I won't spell them out, but they are there. On a typical day I spend a couple of hours moderating new registrations and this is one of the things that gets checked.

Most forum admins have tools that ban ip addresses and other things so it is not so easy anymore to sign back up once banned from a forum.

See above.

No one has banned John.

At this point I have banned John Butto. It was a reluctant decision because he has demonstrated extraordinary knowledge and helpfulness. Unfortunately, he is apparently obsessed with a misplaced allegiance to Gino that has come to negatively influence his participation here. It has reached a point where it is hurting this community and taking us away from what we're supposed to be about.

I know. You were saying if you get banned you just sign up as someone else, but it is not that easy anymore...

The primary mission of Signs 101 is to help members add knowledge and sign making skills as well as improve the profitability of their businesses. To a lesser extent, Signs 101 is also intended to be an entertaining and enjoyable social venue for professional sign makers. When any member's activities and participation serve to work in opposition to the missions of Signs 101, they risk being removed from this community.

It is clear to me as the manager of Signs 101 that this point has been reached by John Butto.

 

[Gene@mpls]

And the world continues to turn. If you need drama... watch reality TV (i.e. insipid TV)

 

[Marlene]

several years ago, I had my full name, location and company info out in the open as I stand behind anything I do or say in real life or online. a member, a person I might add who still is a member here contacted another member's customer not trying to steal work but just being an a$$. I was in contact thru PMs with the abused member and every since then, I've removed everything except my first name. I also will never post work here on the site as you never know what another member will do with the info. don't judge those who don't post their work as you have no idea why. don't assume you know and put them down for it. it was rude to say Gino never posted his work as you have no idea his reasons to choose not to. for those who do post that is up to you and I also don't assume to know why you do. it looks like some who have done some real life damage to members are welcome on the site while some who have just ticked people off aren't. that is Fred's choice. just remember that when you post your real name or your work, that member is still out there so good luck with that