Night-time "human directionals": need help starting my empire :)

[Custom_Grafx]

Is it better than this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfK6TmjOu6k

 

[iSign]

ah-haaa... I recognize that dasterdly duo, straight out of the den of deceit ...which we now know must be down in the bowels of that behemoth bayliner

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

WHOA SLOW DOWN there Doug. The prototype sketch is only an hour old. But I will say this is going to be a VERY relaxing month and I'll be looking at the new Bentleys tomorrow.

 

[CES020]

Why would anyone on this forum help anyone else on this forum for free?

There's a big difference in helping someone with an application problem and asking someone to help you make millions for free. Telling someone which side of transfer tape goes up is way different than what you are asking.

You'll help starving people if you get rich? Me too! So, someone, please help me make millions so I can help poor people around the world.

 

[MikePro]

let alone people who buy cheap coroplast signs.

+1 THIS
good luck trying to become rich on the cheapest clients in the market. Coroplast signage has its purpose, and starting an "empire" on accessories for them is not part of it.

 

[Custom_Grafx]

I've never seen it light up different sections before, I wonder how they achieve that?

There will be some interesting stuff coming up with this stuff maybe? Someone on 101 recently posted a car with EL on it. That looked really different to eh?

 

[Custom_Grafx]

+1 THIS
good luck trying to become rich on the cheapest clients in the market. Coroplast signage has its purpose, and starting an "empire" on accessories for them is not part of it.

The sign spinners add more value to cheap signs than any patent ever will.

 

[MikePro]

i just wish there was a better way to add electroluminescence to my list of services without having to pay $6k up front. Seems kind of steep to have an inside track on ordering laminated layers of foil and phosphorus. Especially when the product only has a half-life of 4000hours.
I've been researching the hell out of finding a reliable source for the panels/wires, but everything so far has turned up ebay-quality websites from asia with very little information besides the maximum size I can purchase is a 2'x3' panel for $200.

 

[MikePro]

I'll let you know if I make any progress on this...

thanks! I'll do the same on my end. I have links to ordering sites, but nothing i'd recommend besides ebay... yet.
i'm sure some of the booths hidden in the back of the ISA show, at the end of this month, might have some better options for us soon enough!

 

[signmeup]

Anyone else notice the tags for this thread? I'm here all by myself and I laughed out loud.
(I copied and pasted them into my post in case they change... although I expect it was our fearless leader who did it.)

"dumb fukken idea, handheld, human directionals, led, mobile, night"

 

[Nightdirectionals]

I'm more familiar with the patenting process than I care to be. What I meant was, why wouldn't you start at step 1 if this is so simple? At trip to lowes and hitting radio shack on the way should do it from what you've described no? Personally I would have at least double sticky back taped some super high power leds to a piece of coroplast long before I started searching for property to locate my world headquarters in. Spend your money wisely my friend. A patent is useless unless it's rock solid and you have the financial and legal means to enforce it.

I already made the mistake of spending what little $$ I had left on two guys with building experience (but no prototype-building experience) and a bunch of materials from Home Depot. about $500 later I was left with nothing as I had hoped. It IS a simple concept, but as I've realized not so simple to build in the way that my setup allows (interchangeability with signs for example, and then of course the more advanced models...). So taping a strip of LEDs to a piece of coroplast wont cut it.

I have not spent any more $$ thus far since those 2 guys I ignorantly hired. I have no plans to spend any $$ on any office space or any other business costs because I am only going to be the license-holder for the patent, NOT the business-owner. I'm obviously not CEO material. Not yet anyway.

So as far as enforcing the patent, that's where the investor/corporation/? that takes on my patent for R&D, etc will come into play. They'd be the ones to make those litigation decisions and put out the $$ to enforce it if they ever deem it necesarry. I personally dislike the idea of big corps suing the "little guy" (seeing how I personally am a "little guy") but from what I understand, I'd have no control over what they do in that respect when I hand over rights to use my patent.

 

[Nightdirectionals]

+1 THIS
good luck trying to become rich on the cheapest clients in the market. Coroplast signage has its purpose, and starting an "empire" on accessories for them is not part of it.

This lighting/flashing frame is going to have various price ranges for various models, from budget all the way up to $1000.

As far as being the "cheapest" clients, have you checked out the rates charged by these signspinning companies? Aarow Advertising isn't exactly cheap, and yet they've been doing quite well these past several years last I checked industry stats. Same with other like companies around the world. Large corporations hire signspinners all the time, so I don't really get what you mean there.

As far you folks, this would only help all of you who deal in coroplast & lexan signage! Which is why I'm a bit disheartened at all this negative unconstructive critisism here. Currently there is no use for a coroplast sign at night because people cannot see them. This would help to open up that market which I can only assume would be good for your sales, not to mention whatever markup any signshop owners would have on selling these devices in their shops.

 

[Nightdirectionals]

There's a big difference in helping someone with an application problem and asking someone to help you make millions for free. Telling someone which side of transfer tape goes up is way different than what you are asking.

You'll help starving people if you get rich? Me too! So, someone, please help me make millions so I can help poor people around the world.

Your negativity and sarcasm aside, if you did in fact have a potential way to make alot of money, and I did believe you were in it for unselfish benefit, then I too would do all I can to help you. Thanks for nothing.

 

[CES020]

Thanks for nothing.

My pleasure, glad I could help

Personally I think the idea is one the world can live without. Like we all need one more distraction at night while riding down the road at night. We're already getting slammed with digital signs at night that are similar to staring at the sun and then going into darkness when you pass the sign. Do we really need more visual distractions at night?

But, that's my personal opinion. I wish you all the best.

 

[MikePro]

i stand corrected.... carry on.
what was this thread about again? still sounds like the worst solicitation, ever.

sorry if I sound like a jerk, but this product (and your attitude) does not seem appealing.

 

[Nightdirectionals]

Based on what you've said, I question whether or not you would be able to enforce such a patent. I say this because, as far as I can tell, anyone, particularly anyone in the sign business, could construct what you describe from commonly available components. As Flame said ... he already has.

I recall years ago a meeting I had with a British dealer for our clipart products. He came to my office with a transfer mask dispenser he had developed that he wanted me to distribute in North America. It was made out of PVC pipe and included a couple of other parts one could buy at a Home Depot or Lowes store. His price to me as a master distributor was just under $400 a unit by the time I imported it. We went out for a bite to eat and then I took him to a Home Depot just up the street. There I showed him the PVC pipe section and demonstrated to him that his main components could all be had for less than $10 total. I then described to him a scene I had witnessed numerous times as an exhibitor at various sign industry trade shows: A clever invention with a host of sign guys standing around sketching it. Needless to say, the dispenser never came to market.

The point is that what you have described will have to be presented and sold to a group that is highly skilled in custom fabrication. If what you offer can be duplicated with common components, no claim of patent will be respected.

Then there's all the Chinese companies that are highly into LEDs for everything under the sun who will follow any success you have with a flood of competitive products if you do look to them as if you are doing well.

I invented a product back in the late 1980s and applied through a patent attorney for everything he could imagine. In all we made 33 claims and eventually I was awarded a patent for two of them. One is not worth mentioning but the attorney and I had a great laugh over the other. It was for the concept of a pinch roller. The same concept that every typewriter, printing press and office machine uses to move paper through a path. I jokingly asked him if I should get in touch with IBM, Xerox and others to demand a royalty for their use of my idea. His serious response was that they would simply counter-sue and I would only end up losing my patent.

Good luck to you though.

Thanks for posting a thoughtful, constructive, MATURE response. Much appreciated.

The whole trade show scenerio is good to know, but I don't think is really 100% applicable to my situation since I will not be the lone guy trying to market his idea, doing b2b door-to-door crap, etc etc. That's the last thing I want to do. That's going to be the company's job (whomever I end up working with/licensing my patent to).

I was posting this thread initially hoping to find access to any higher-up connections of some kind in the industry to launch this thing and protect the patent, because I do realize the patent is worth nothing without the big $$ and means to back it up. If anyone wants to rip off my patent without paying for licensing rights, they can feel free to but the investor/corporation I work with may not feel that laid-back about it :-/

There's thousands of patents given by USPTO every year by corps and individuals alike that could potentially be made at home using stuff from Home Depot, but once you try and use that homemade item to make $$ for your business then you're running risk of lawsuit by a company that has far far more $$ than you for litigation. And from what I understand, with IP lawsuits, $$ generally = win.

But I've spoken with my pat attourney and a few professionals specializing in utility patents, engineering, and IP law, and this is in fact a viable patent. As I said, It's a very very simple idea. Just not necessarily all that simple to build with common materials (as I found out the hard way) while maintaining a presentable look. If it looks like it was homemade, good chance the client won't be interested in using that signspinning firm's night advertising service. I'll be directly involved in R&D so I'll make SURE people get what they are paying for, inside and out. Mass-production cuts down cost so having a corporation who gets on board right off the bat would be able to sell these things at a lower cost (materials+labor) than any Joe/Joanne here could possibly do.

I've already got my initial prototype in the works with a professional prototype builder (who by the way is helping me out for practically nothing compared to what he normally charges clients). So I've got that covered.

And I realize China generally doesn't respect patent law, but I'm not worried about that. I'll leave that stuff up to the folks I work with who have all the $$ and power to deal with any IP infringement issues that come up. I doubt even if China did start copying this whole thing, that they could ever legally sell it in the US. Then again, maybe licensing this thing to a company that has a presence in China as well might be a deterrent to that sort of behavior there? hmm.

In any case, I guess if nobody here has any ideas/higher-up industry connections that would potentially work with me on this, then I should probably move onto a more suitable source for answers :-/

 

[Nightdirectionals]

i stand corrected.... carry on.
what was this thread about again? still sounds like the worst solicitation, ever.

sorry if I sound like a jerk, but this product (and your attitude) does not seem appealing.

????
Were you referring to me or someone else here? I have had no negative attitude (even though nearly 90% of what I've RECIEVED from people here has been negative unconstructive critisism, insults and sarcasm. Read the thread from beginning to end more carefully and you will see. I think I'm taking this QUITE well).

And this wasn't solicitation, this was simply seeking information. Again, read my posts to see.

But nevermind. It seems I've made a mistake coming here seeking information and basic respectful human conversation.

 

[Fred Weiss]

And I realize China generally doesn't respect patent law, but I'm not worried about that. I'll leave that stuff up to the folks I work with who have all the $$ and power to deal with any IP infringement issues that come up. I doubt even if China did start copying this whole thing, that they could ever legally sell it in the US. Then again, maybe licensing this thing to a company that has a presence in China as well might be a deterrent to that sort of behavior there? hmm.

With the invention I mentioned, we seriously underestimated the non-U.S. sales potential. For example, we sold more of our invention to continental European buyers than we sold to all of North America. We sold more of the device in New Zealand than we sold to buyers in California, Texas, New York and Florida combined. Our Australian dealer once remarked to me that "In the United States, the problem is getting something sold. In the rest of the world it is getting something to sell."

So even if you are being grossly misunderstood here, and your lack of pictures or tangible information does lend itself to that, you appear to be taking a lot for granted when it comes to where you will likely have the greatest sales potential.

In any case, I guess if nobody here has any ideas/higher-up industry connections that would potentially work with me on this, then I should probably move onto a more suitable source for answers :-/

As referenced above, you probably have a lot to learn about the North American sign shop's typical receptiveness to new ideas. Had you asked me in advance, I would have recommended that you do research and look for backers in a different way and a different venue.

 

[CES020]

Since I have no idea what you are creating, I can't help but so much.

Here's a link to a place that seems to be doing similar things. You might contact them to see if it's a good fit for your product patent. They have the connection all the way to manufacturing in China, so they are a place I think could take an idea and run with it.

http://www.flexmedia.com/webps/Scripts/newhome.aspx

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

if nothing else you will learn a tremendous amount going through the patent process your first time. you will learn better ways to go about the process.

i will give you this much you have thought a little further than most ppl that i consult with who are granted a patent and have no idea what to do from that point moving forward. since you have no desire to venture into production and sales i would highly recommend simply selling your patent versus licensing (if and that could be a big IF)..IF you can find a buyer.

good luck to you. congrats on taking the steps to secure a patent the first time is a learning process.

 

[Nightdirectionals]

Our Australian dealer once remarked to me that "In the United States, the problem is getting something sold. In the rest of the world it is getting something to sell."

Wow, that's good to know. Well, again I will let the company I deal with, deal with that, although that does help guide me in terms of trying to stick with a corp with an international presence as opposed to simply US-based! THANKS!


So even if you are being grossly misunderstood here, and your lack of pictures or tangible information does lend itself to that...[/QUOTE]
Ah yes, thanks for reminding me! I meant to address that. I do have patent info but I don't want to display it publicly here for you all because I've been informed by one of the patent/marketing professionals I've spoken with that public demonstrations of it could create some issues later on with forming ties or working out certain kinds of contracts with licensees/corporations or something er rather...I forget (would need to dig thru my notes to see). So I'm just playing it safe and sticking to basic text description for you all

As referenced above, you probably have a lot to learn about the North American sign shop's typical receptiveness to new ideas.

Yes indeed, and it seems I'm getting my first lesson in that right here! lol jeez.

Had you asked me in advance, I would have recommended that you do research and look for backers in a different way and a different venue.

Well, problem is when one is still in a state of ignorance as I am regarding this whole thing (let alone being a "newbie" here), one does not know what questions to ask or whom to ask. Honestly I never even thought of asking you personally. So starting over then, THANK YOU for your helpful tips! Can you maybe tell me what path would be more appropriate path to take here in terms of backers and venues?

Just a reminder, I'm not personally going to be seeking $$ to start my own company around this. I'm simply looking to be the patent holder and connect with some company via a licensee or some other route. Either way, I'm not fit to personally market this to a company to take on, let alone to the general business community to buy.

 

[Nightdirectionals]

if nothing else you will learn a tremendous amount going through the patent process your first time. you will learn better ways to go about the process.

i will give you this much you have thought a little further than most ppl that i consult with who are granted a patent and have no idea what to do from that point moving forward. since you have no desire to venture into production and sales i would highly recommend simply selling your patent versus licensing (if and that could be a big IF)..IF you can find a buyer.

good luck to you. congrats on taking the steps to secure a patent the first time is a learning process.

yes, I did mention that licensing was my aim in prior posts. I mentioned I was here seeking additional info/insider connections. But thanks anyway for the info and desiring to help. I do appreciate it regardless

 

[Nightdirectionals]

Since I have no idea what you are creating, I can't help but so much.

Here's a link to a place that seems to be doing similar things. You might contact them to see if it's a good fit for your product patent. They have the connection all the way to manufacturing in China, so they are a place I think could take an idea and run with it.

http://www.flexmedia.com/webps/Scripts/newhome.aspx

Thank you for your constructive response! I didn't realize you didn't understand what I had patented.

I'm getting the hint now that I am unable to be clear in communicating the invention on an internet forum without showing the patent diagrams and drawings, which is not a good thing for me to do at this point from my understanding. So I guess I'm stuck there :-/

Anyway, although that's far more elaborate and expensive (to mfgr/buy) than what I've got, what you suggested is a good idea. Maybe that company or a company like it, even though apparently specializing in high-tech advertising, may be interested to take this on. hmm...

Thanks bro for your willingness to help. I appreciate that