Removing handlettering on fire truck

[Kevin-shopVOX]

Hello,
I have a question about removing painted lettering on a fire truck we are doing lettering for. Currently there gold leaf with a black shadow it also has a clear-coat or some type of varnish on it. I am going to be replacing all of that with SignGold and a black premium vinyl. I obviously need to remove what is there before I can apply the new graphics but am not sure the best way to safely remove it. Would mineral spirits be too aggressive? If anyone has suggestions on the best way to do, especially all of you talented hand-lettering folks I would greatly appreciate the info. Thanks up front for you time.

 

[Gino]

Before you remove it.... are you sure they're Okay with what you're replacing it with ?? Have you shown them a sample ??

Most of the Fire Companies I know don't visually understand the difference between gold leaf vinyl and the real McCoy. If you replace with something that has the same words in it, but is an entirely different approach, there could be some very unhappy Firemen in your neighborhood.

Make sure they see the difference visually and that it won't hold up the same as 23k gold leaf.

 

[Craig Sjoquist]

Whip down with Boi-Ami,let dry
About a 600 grit sandpaper to get the gold off sand and use Boi-Ami from time time.
After most gold is off, then use ...Easy Off ..Oven Cleaner ..let it dry about 10 to 20 mins you will see changes in sun faster..use plastic scrubby scrub off, wash with water let dry, repeat if needed and clean with Boi-Ami.

 

[Billct2]

i've used Craigs technique, as long as it is a factory finish paint. And most of the fire trucks I do now are signgold, though you can try to talk them into the real thing and show them the difference.

 

[Jillbeans]

The best way would be to have an auto body repair shop take care of the removal.
That way they can handle the repaint should it need to be done.
Easy Off is tricky at best and can stain the existing finish, especially if done outdoors.
Let the professionals do it, wait about a month, then you do your part.
Love.....Jill

 

[Joe Diaz]

Let the professionals do it, wait about a month, then you do your part.

X2

 

[Si Allen]

First ... make sure that it is original factory paint!

Then tape over the letters with a good brand of duct tape, and squeegee it down, leaving a flap to give yourself a good place to grab.

Rip the tape off ... the clear and gold will come off with the tape. Repeat if necessary.

Then take a paper towel or rag and tape over the letters and wet with laquer thinner or MEK ... keep it wet for about 10 minutes. The wrinkled up paint should be easy to scrape off with a Lil Chisler.

the bits and pieces left ... use rubbing compound on a rag to clean them off.

IF it is a repaint ... disregard all the above.

 

[Mosh]

+3 on the body shop doing it. I learned this after having to pay to have a door re-painted once. Oven cleaner stained the paint.

 

[artsnletters]

Before you remove it.... are you sure they're Okay with what you're replacing it with ?? Have you shown them a sample ??

Most of the Fire Companies I know don't visually understand the difference between gold leaf vinyl and the real McCoy. If you replace with something that has the same words in it, but is an entirely different approach, there could be some very unhappy Firemen in your neighborhood.

Make sure they see the difference visually and that it won't hold up the same as 23k gold leaf.

these days Signgold holds up BETTER than real gold leaf when you take the limitations of the clear coats to overcoat the gold. Doesn't Signgold have a 10 yr warrantee if you seal the edges?
Tim

 

[Gino]

It's either a 10 or 14 year warranty, but that's provided the person putting it on is doing it under their perfect conditions. Odds are, it won't last that long, but regardless, its not the time frame [although a good gilding will last 20 years or more].... but if the Fire Company knows they are replacing it with something different that isn't 23k gold ??

Calling something gold leaf vinyl vs. gold leaf is a slip of the tongue on most sign peoples' part that can't do the real gold leaf job.

I know of several local sign shops that advertise they do real gold leaf windows, trucks and fire engine appliques. I went to see two of these people and both are advertising this 22k Sign Gold as the real thing. When I asked them why are they purposely misrepresenting gilding.... first, they didn't know what gilding meant and second, they actually believe the Sign Gold is the same thing, just on a liner for cutters to cut. Now how ignorant is that ??

In both cases, I tried to reason with them, but the one guy just flat out told me I was wrong.

You can't reason with stupidity, but you can prevent any misunderstanding on your customer's part if you show them the reality between the two, unless you also just want to cop out and take the easy road.

Just pretending there is no difference and giving people something they don't know.... is just going to make the change-over to vinyl gold become the normal realization for actual gold leaf products.

 

[GraphixUnlimited]

The best way would be to have an auto body repair shop take care of the removal.
That way they can handle the repaint should it need to be done.
Easy Off is tricky at best and can stain the existing finish, especially if done outdoors.
Let the professionals do it, wait about a month, then you do your part.
Love.....Jill

x3 ... from previous experience...

 

[Joe Diaz]

I also agree about using sign gold (gold leaf vinyl) as an alternative on fire trucks. It holds up very well. It's not that real gold leaf doesn't, but if your fire department is anything like ours, they scrub those trucks down any chance they get, and they have a lot of chances. They are probably the most washed vehicles on the planet, and most firemen don't know how to properly take care of their finish. We use automotive clears and they still find away to wear through to the gold.

One time we witnessed a fire man spraying down their tires with God knows what solvents, scrub them down with a brush, then use that same brush to wash the rest of the truck.

Even though I agree that the real thing looks better then the vinyl, it doesn't as time goes on and it is a pain to deal with when it does start to wear.

We try to do the real thing every chance we get, but for fire trucks, we have made the switch and I would recommend it for any fire truck that is being used for work and use the real stuff for the show trucks.

 

[Billct2]

Ya know, I'm getting too old for the hassle,
I change my vote to get a body shop to do it.

 

[Kevin-shopVOX]

Thanks for all of the responses everyone. I really do appreciate it.

 

[jfiscus]

Any more most fire departments don't hold onto a vehicle over 8 years, so longevity past that is a small matter. I can't tell you how to get it off, sounds like a PITA especially with the clearcoat over it. We have an in-house body shop here too, so they handle all of the prep. Everything is removed and ready for a nice clean install when I get to it. Good luck.

 

[chopper]

I have removed quit a bit of hand lettered jobs over the years, if you do not have the experience I would do as Jill stated and have a body shop do it,
with that said my family owned a body shop geared towards the bigger equipment, we actually had a paint booth designed to fit a hook and ladder fire truck into if I remember correctly it was 80 or 90 ft long, anyway it comes down to the type of paint that is on the truck, if it is base coat clear coat the easy off will work with out staining the truck ( no guarantee) if it is single stage paint more times than not it will discolor the paint, so the doors may need to be repainted ... it is kinda a crap shoot I have been quite lucky over the years but it kinda come with making the mistakes and learning from them,
and now a days it can get quite pricey to paint a set of doors. the easy off will really mess up a metallic paint job, if you have to do it your self and you are willing to accept the risk, I think Si is on the right track with the duct tape approach...I would use easy-off as a last resort...good luck..
//chopper

 

[JimmyG]

First ... make sure that it is original factory paint!
Then tape over the letters with a good brand of duct tape, and squeegee it down, leaving a flap to give yourself a good place to grab.
Rip the tape off ... the clear and gold will come off with the tape. Repeat if necessary.
Then take a paper towel or rag and tape over the letters and wet with laquer thinner or MEK ... keep it wet for about 10 minutes. The wrinkled up paint should be easy to scrape off with a Lil Chisler.
the bits and pieces left ... use rubbing compound on a rag to clean them off.

IF it is a repaint ... disregard all the above.

I was wondering Who, if anyone, was gonna mention using laquer thinner...Us ole farts did this for many years before base/clear finishes became the norm, beit 1-shot handpainted lettering or gold leaf...this process will likely leave a "ghost" image, hence the need to use BonAmi as mild scrubbing agent mentioned above...Many times a body shop "buffing job" will be needed also...

Concerning "have a body shop do it"....Do your research and know that your bodyshop fellows know about stuff like "ghosting" .....follow up so that it is not your problem should a ghost be seen when you go to stick new signgold, with outlines....
If old lettering ghosts are seen reflected in daylight, it can make your new job look like re-do crap....

...

 

[Custom Bob]

99.9 % of all Fire Departments are very fussy. I was in the body shop business for a long time as well as always doing my custom painting. I've used the Easy Off method. It can be disastrous and costly. Like most have said. Have a body shop repaint the doors.
The only thing with what Jill said..."Wait a Month". Most Fire Departments are like all the other customers. They want it done yesterday.
As far as Sign Gold vinyl holding up. Fire Departments are more likely to Wax the vinyl off before it ages off. LOL

 

[round man]

What `Si Allen suggested +1 here,....
As for the debate of signgold vs real gilding,..I have lettered and gilded over 100 fire apparatus vehicles over the span of my career and never once did I try to use signgold,..all you have to see is a true good gilding job get close enough to a fire to melt the plastic reflector lenses one time to realize signgold just don't cut the mustard,..real gold will hold up as long as the paint it is on,if done properly,..thats the problem nowadays 99 out of 100 ppl trying to convince the client they know what they are doing actually don't.And the part about the clear coats not holding up are a farce also,..,the clear coats available today are ten times better than anything that has been available in the past,..you just have to know what you are doing,....and do it well.

 

[adkmaid]

What `Si Allen suggested +1 here,....
As for the debate of signgold vs real gilding,..I have lettered and gilded over 100 fire apparatus vehicles over the span of my career and never once did I try to use signgold,..all you have to see is a true good gilding job get close enough to a fire to melt the plastic reflector lenses one time to realize signgold just don't cut the mustard,..real gold will hold up as long as the paint it is on,if done properly,..thats the problem nowadays 99 out of 100 ppl trying to convince the client they know what they are doing actually don't.And the part about the clear coats not holding up are a farce also,..,the clear coats available today are ten times better than anything that has been available in the past,..you just have to know what you are doing,....and do it well.

putting vinyl or signgold on a firetruck is like putting vinyl or signgold on a wooden boats, something i would NEVER do. the easy off is a good way to get it off but.......make sure that stuff touches nothing that is aluminum like wheels, tanks, steps and so on. the easyoff and the lacquer thinner work only on factory paint because it is imron paint usually and buff it off. I almost lost it when i read the post of using duct tape especially if it wasnt factory paint OMG laid a tape line down the side of a box trailer once and ripped it off in a quick yank and took that finish right down to metal because it was not prepped correctly. Yes firemen are washing and waxing fools but with a little education on just what they are doing to their $1500 lettering job will usually take care of that, NO PASTE WAX.