Replacing peeling vinyl in channel faces

[Aardvark Printing]

I'm replacing the vinyl in a customers channel letters that has dried and peeled. I'm using 3M Scotchcal series 3630 for the lettering.
Any advice on applying the new vinyl and does it need to be laminated?

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Use cast translucent colored vinyl if you can. I like 3M 3630. Their colored vinyl has been shipping a day after I order on most colors. Printed will not last long even if it's laminated.

 

[Aardvark Printing]

Use cast translucent colored vinyl if you can. I like 3M 3630. Their colored vinyl has been shipping a day after I order on most colors. Printed will not last long even if it's laminated.

Thanks. That's what I have but I've never applied Vinyl that thin and It's tricky getting it to lay smoothly between the edgings.

 

[ikarasu]

Wet apply it. Rapid tac works best, but you can put a drop or two of babysoap in water and spray it on the face and the vinyl... Drop it into place and squeegee.

It'll still move... What we like to do is leave an inch or two on the bottom still attached to the liner. Tape it in position using that inch or two...spray both, squeegee it down and it should be tacky enough to lift the bottom inch, remove the liner and spray it down.

 

[jimmmi]

How about the edges? Won't leave white gap?

 

[ikarasu]

It looks like there is a white gap on the edges - The sun bleached the outside and you can see an outline.

If you were to do it without any white outline, it'd be a pain in the butt. I'd probably do it the same way... cut out the letter on a graphtec about 1/8" bigger all around, place it in wet... wait for it to dry, push down the edges, then cut it with a knife. It's doable, just a pain in the butt!

 

[Billct2]

As was said, cast translucent using application fluid. A white border is common, especially with blue, to make them more legible when lit. New faces would be even better.

 

[Z SIGNS]

Yup use the best cast translucent you can get. But that's the least of your trouble. Removing the old vynull is going to be your problem.

 

[Gino]

Yup use the best cast translucent you can get. But that's the least of your trouble. Removing the old vynull is going to be your problem.

While that's true, I think the biggest problem is gonna be getting a perfect match for the inlay vinyl..... unless they cut it in with an xacto, by hand. If they didn't make the letters originally, how can they get a good match. Also, are they taking the letters down and bringing them in-house to do the work or just wing it, out in the field ??

 

[Aardvark Printing]

Yup use the best cast translucent you can get. But that's the least of your trouble. Removing the old vynull is going to be your problem.

Gentle use of a heat gun then removing leftover adhesive with alcohol worked OK but yes, it's a pain.

 

[Aardvark Printing]

While that's true, I think the biggest problem is gonna be getting a perfect match for the inlay vinyl..... unless they cut it in with an xacto, by hand. If they didn't make the letters originally, how can they get a good match. Also, are they taking the letters down and bringing them in-house to do the work or just wing it, out in the field ??

Definitely taking them down and doing this on a bench ( high temp today is 97) and hand cutting the letter. It's simple block with few curves.

 

[Aardvark Printing]

How about the edges? Won't leave white gap?

The original had a 1/2" white gap all around. Repeating that.

 

[ikarasu]

While that's true, I think the biggest problem is gonna be getting a perfect match for the inlay vinyl..... unless they cut it in with an xacto, by hand. If they didn't make the letters originally, how can they get a good match. Also, are they taking the letters down and bringing them in-house to do the work or just wing it, out in the field ??

For something like this we'd just put a 12x12 square by it, take a photo... De-fisheye it and trace it. It won't be 100% but neither is hand cutting... Takes a couple of minutes to do and is accurate to the eye (well, the non signmaker eye)

 

[Aardvark Printing]

For something like this we'd just put a 12x12 square by it, take a photo... De-fisheye it and trace it. It won't be 100% but neither is hand cutting... Takes a couple of minutes to do and is accurate to the eye (well, the non signmaker eye)

I took white craft paper and rubbed the channel edges like a tomb stone with a crayon then shrunk the lines in a 1/2" all around. When I took the old vinyl off one you could see the xacto cut lines in the acrylic from the original.

 

[Gino]

For something like this we'd just put a 12x12 square by it, take a photo... De-fisheye it and trace it. It won't be 100% but neither is hand cutting... Takes a couple of minutes to do and is accurate to the eye (well, the non signmaker eye)


I don't know how many or what size these letters are, but close enough is only good in horseshoes and hand grenades..... not signs. Not knocking it, but I wasn't raised that way.

 

[Aardvark Printing]

Is Rapid TAC prep or adhesive remover appreciable better than 99% Isopropanol Alcohol?

 

[Scotchbrite]

I would try to match the font. Measure stroke widths and see if the font matches the sign. If it looks promising, paper print a couple of fullsize letters, and see if they are on the mark. If you can match the font, then you can pre-cut the letters with a plotter.

All that being said, if I were pricing this job, I would have priced all new faces. Trim cap around here barely lasts as long as translucent vinyl. Won't be long and you're gonna be loosing faces in the wind.

 

[ikarasu]

For something like this we'd just put a 12x12 square by it, take a photo... De-fisheye it and trace it. It won't be 100% but neither is hand cutting... Takes a couple of minutes to do and is accurate to the eye (well, the non signmaker eye)


I don't know how many or what size these letters are, but close enough is only good in horseshoes and hand grenades..... not signs. Not knocking it, but I wasn't raised that way.

I mean, Id say it's a safe bet that a diecut out if graphtec would be much more accurate than a guy with an exacto.


No matter how good and skilled you are... A human's still a human. It's like when you print and. It 3 ft decal and the white border is 1/16" off... Do you redo it, or is it "close enough"? I'm talking so close that unless you pull out a ruler / tape measure, you're not going to know it's not exact....I'd bet $100 a photo + graphtec could do a more accurate cut than someone using an exacto, 9 out of 10 tries!

Not knocking doing it by hand. It's an art in and of itself, people can do amazing things... Just hard to beat computers these days.

 

[Aardvark Printing]

I would try to match the font. Measure stroke widths and see if the font matches the sign. If it looks promising, paper print a couple of fullsize letters, and see if they are on the mark. If you can match the font, then you can pre-cut the letters with a plotter.

All that being said, if I were pricing this job, I would have priced all new faces. Trim cap around here barely lasts as long as translucent vinyl. Won't be long and you're gonna be loosing faces in the wind.

The caps seem to be in pretty good shape but I'll probably do it your way the next time.

I mean, Id say it's a safe bet that a diecut out if graphtec would be much more accurate than a guy with an exacto.


No matter how good and skilled you are... A human's still a human. It's like when you print and. It 3 ft decal and the white border is 1/16" off... Do you redo it, or is it "close enough"? I'm talking so close that unless you pull out a ruler / tape measure, you're not going to know it's not exact....I'd bet $100 a photo + graphtec could do a more accurate cut than someone using an exacto, 9 out of 10 tries!

Not knocking doing it by hand. It's an art in and of itself, people can do amazing things... Just hard to beat computers these days.

If my cutter wasn't down I'd do it that way. As is they're 20" San Serif letters 20 feet up with simple curves. An exacto, a steel French curve and going slow will have to do.

 

[Gino]

If the OP is bringing them to do in-house, hopefully he'll remove the jewelite. If he does, you can handcut a each letter using the xacto in your fingers and using your index finger as a guide. Each letter could easily be totally done within 2 or 3 minutes. It's the same way ya pinstripe. Remember, I'm talking about proven methods, not guessing and hoping for the best. It can be really a matter of old school knowhow vs. Modern day re-inventing the wheel.

I will say, your method can work in some cases, but I'd leave it as a last resort.