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Signs 101 Business Model

Would you prefer to pay membership dues for a smaller, higher quality forum?

  • Yes

    Votes: 78 28.9%
  • No

    Votes: 192 71.1%

  • Total voters
    270
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Bigdawg

Just Me
Cadmn, I would like to think that any MM advertising as a wholesale only shop would properly vet anyone that tried to place a wholesale order from them.

As far as what to do, I'm not sure how to keep the board exclusive to those in the industry.

I am going to say this... and I have a little bit of a unique viewpoint here since I was off the board - actually pretty well off the internet - for the better part of a year. When I checked in here I rarely bothered to log in since I was just passing through.

When I came back I can tell you that it was a much different place then the one I left. While the community was still there, the overwhelming friendliness was gone. Some of the people who were here when I left had gotten more jaded and cynical when dealing with newcomers. Suspicion reigned (reigns). It wasn't a very inviting place if you made any misstep - or heaven forbid - not post an newbie introduction first. I don't think I would have stayed if it had been like that when I first came.

I was a newcomer to the sign industry - with only graphic design and screenprinting experience behind me. AND I had a Master's cutter. Y'all would have ate me up and spit me out without blinking. But see, I came here to learn how to do it right. I asked stupid questions and I knew so little that I didn't even know how to ask for the information I needed sometimes. People here held my hand, shared their knowledge and allowed me to add signage to my business in a professional way instead of just being another fly-by-night vinyl jockey.

My point in all of this - and I speak purely for myself, not as admin or for anyone else - but signs101 is a learning place. Newbies - by the very fact that they want to learn - will come here. I'm not too in favor of making it harder for someone in the business to learn the right way to do things.

I would like to find a workable solution to the problem of those outside the business finding their way inside. Even innocently like the boat decal guy appeared to have. But there are limitations to what is practical. And relying on volunteers - however well-meaning they may be - has not worked in the past. So when the enthusiasm has died down and volunteers drop by the wayside, it will fall back to Fred to pick up the slack.
 

*theresa*

New Member
Fred,

My wife and I have been in business for 2 years now and have not been active or maybe I should say participating members on your site. I cruise it all the time to learn how to do better what we love to do (signs). Now I have not read every response in detail but just by skimming a handful of responses it looks like the folks that are in your higher levels (PHD and such) are for the pay way and the other half is for the present way.

Signs 101 originally appeared to be a site where new sign makers could go to learn about the opportunities in the sign industry and possibly learn from other's mistakes (hence the 101 tag). I've found it is much more than that and that's great. However, the higher level folks have a tendancy to be sarcastic and some times down right rude to folks who post for a first time. I guess some of your participants here get tired of the preschoolers asking dumb questions. The other night I read a thread where someone was asking what he would be worth in the market place and one of your members jumped all over him. I guess the guy didn't explain himself well enough or something.

If this is a site developed to assist ALL signmakers in developing their business and to make the sign world a better place then you should keep it the way it is. If you are going in a different direction and you want to develop into a higher quality group (the experienced group) then change it. Drop the '101' tag and maybe call yourselves the 'SignsPHD'. I'm sure someone else will create a new site that will take the place of what makes this site so busy. (the higher level posters remind me of the old crusty country club members who yell at the staff and are never happy).

If you start charging I'm for one gone. And that may not mean much to you but it probably would mean a lot to Merrit, Killer Graphics and the like.

If all you are worried about is non sign makers accessing the site then set up some sort of sign up through Fellers, GSG, Grimco or maybe your existing vendors. If anyone is worried about their competition getting a leg up on their pricing then don't share it.

Bottom line; this is a great website and I've learned loads from the other members here. If I have to pay for it keep it. I'll figure it out myself with a few snafus along the way.

D3G


I totally agree!! I, too, am not a very active poster, but I do read the threads daily! I was already in business when I found this forum, so I didn't start a new business by learning the ropes from S101, BUT I have learned so much here that has helped me with my business. I have been hesitant to ask certain questions on here, for the reasons everyone is mentioning about their customers finding this forum... but if worded correctly without any names, you can ask away!!

I'm not going to say that I wouldn't pay if it comes to that, but I would have to think about it. I probably wouldn't be missed, but I would definitely miss :signs101:.

Just my 2 cents...
 

*theresa*

New Member
When I came back I can tell you that it was a much different place then the one I left. While the community was still there, the overwhelming friendliness was gone. Some of the people who were here when I left had gotten more jaded and cynical when dealing with newcomers. Suspicion reigned (reigns). It wasn't a very inviting place if you made any misstep - or heaven forbid - not post an newbie introduction first. I don't think I would have stayed if it had been like that when I first came.


Bigdawg, you have hit teh nail on the head... I was actually trying to figure out how to say some of the same things without offending anyone. Like I said in my previous post, I don't post a whole lot, but read EVERYTHING here and have actually been "afraid" to ask some things for fear of being "bashed"!!!
 

Fred Weiss

Merchant Member
For the record folks ... I'm not burnt out and sounded off a bit because everybody needs to vent now and then. It's good to hear the opinions of a number of you on this topic.

The whole notion of a conversion to paid membership was primarily put out there to make the point that it isn't a good option. I would also hope that some of you would get the message that the lurkers and occasional objectionable new member is not a big issue. Going to great lengths like changing our entire business model or putting a dozen people on the phone verifying new members is pure overkill. Nine out of ten are straightforward, legitimate sign people and it is obvious from the information provided at registration.

On a different note, I will add to the point already stated by a few others that this forum suffers from a lack of common courtesy on the part of more than a few members. Everyday we see outright prejudging of the motives of posters and rude, wisecrack remarks that often end in bad feelings. If you buy into the idea of being helpful to new members, then be helpful. Otherwise, please exhibit some common courtesy and benefit of the doubt with newcomers.

None of which changes the reality that Signs 101 needs to produce more revenue than it does at present. Not to line my pockets but to make Signs 101 a better resource. If you'd rather line my pockets, buy some of my artwork and make some money with it while you're at it.

So towards that end, we will be looking at making some changes that will make becoming a Contributing Member a more rewarding investment in the near future.

As always, I am open to suggestions for improvements and Westcoast Sign Guy, please PM me your edited out idea(s).

Let's put this puppy to bed.
dog27.gif
 

D3G

New Member
Like I said Gino old crusty and never happy. By the way I went back and found the thread with the person looking for info on pay. Who was the clown who had to blast the poster out of the shoot, you of course.

Fred I have an idea; when you show the count of posts for an individual can you show how many posts were actual contributions and how many were sarcastic blasts at others? Then you can give an award to the one who doesn't play well with others.

Ding, ding, ding we have a winner! Why it's Gino of course.


You're a sad person Gino, sad, sad, sad.
 

Ken

New Member
Become a Contributing Member...it doesn't give you any rights over anyone else but helps keep this site up and running...
I really cant understand anyone ( particulary regular readers and posters) not WANTING to contribule 50 bucks a year to read and participate here. That is approx 14 CENTS a day....
A monetary donation to this site...is that so hard to grasp?
Ugghhhh...
And the other comments...people afraid of clients, competitors..learning their business... You're living in the realm of the terrorist syndrome...
I don't mind a newbie getting bashed..I usually welcome them with a request that they search the site to avoid asking the same old questions...I think that really helps to keep it running smooth...OF COURSE..egos are hurt sometimes...
I forget which forum...NO>>>I Remember...the T-Shirt forum had really good instructions on how to introduce yourself, ask questions, proticol, etiquette....
Anyway, I'll keep paying my 50 bucks a year...14 cents a day, to continue enjoying this creative, informative, delightful and sometimes controversial site.
Cheers! Fred!!!

IF Your Name is on this list...are you a contributing member???
Ken, 49hd, Air Art Girl, asd, aviationben, Billct2, blackbok, BorderPatrol, Cadmn, cdiesel, cornell, Creative_Lance, D3G, Dave Drane, dealerjim, dejan, dieguy, dirtydog50000, Fred Weiss, friflaj, Grafix USA, gtjet, gvgraphics, GXSignCo, henrysign, IKD, iSign, jasonx, Jolie, joostio, Matt Cuellar, njsigns, ohiodirtdigger, OldPaint, PSG, Rage Graphics, Rick, sardocs, seaviewsigns, signage, SignRite, Techman, The dude, totalimage, uneedasign, Westcoast Sign Guy, wimbley ....and ..
 
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iSign

New Member
Like I said... old crusty and never happy.

...when you show the count of posts for an individual can you show how many posts were actual contributions and how many were sarcastic blasts at others?

I'm here a lot, and & put in time when I come here, because I enjoy spending a lot of what little free time I have, by reading this board.

I don't always come here looking to learn something, I often come for entertainment, and camaraderie... but even those times, I end up learning a lot more then I would watching TV.

Besides spending a lot of time here, I also write a lot of posts. I could give a rats ass what my post count is, and wouldn't give a crap if we all returned to zero's...

I have been an outspoken, blunt, straight-shooting person, all my life. I've talked my way into trouble & then talked my way out many times in real life... because I don't have too much fear, to cause me to shut up, but I am not looking for trouble, I am looking for interaction and honesty. If some one is honestly an asshole, liar or a cheat... they can usually handle being called out for being one, if the one calling them out is only doing so to say, cheat someone else, 'cause I'm on to you...

...so I guess my rambling is to say "deal with it wimps!"... some of us aren't here to coddle the poor frail pansies of the world... but in the process of hanging out, enjoying the professionalism, and the entertainment... there's always someone showing up who is out of their element... and they may be a good fit for this place, and they may not be... but getting a clue as to what goes on here is part of the education that just happens to have to happen... anywhere! If Gino, Shovel, OP, myself or others are a little coarse at times, it's probably helping more then it's hurting IMO.

Life is anarchy, and interacting with others will never happen in a vacuum... because the "others" aren't there... so get on with dealing with the exhilerating unknown reality of a broad spectrum of crazy sign folks... or go run back to some homogonized daycare somewhere that unpredictable behavior will be censored for your high maintenance demands.

By the way D3G, I found your politely worded responses to be far more insulting in one day, then the thousands of Gino's posts I've read. He is the kind of professional who has the big payday answers to the big bank breaking questions... and we don't need his opinion on which plotter not to buy every week... but if he's still here when I have some $10,000.00 job that requires me to stretch out into some new territory... I'd happily see guys like him scare off a dozen guys like you (if that was even happening, which it ain't) ...so that the day I need the wisdom of a tru veteran... he's still happily hanging around, crusty or not!
 

Techman

New Member
IF Your Name is on this list...are you a contributing member???

Is this a call out? Who said anything about wanting to or not?? Only you? Listing a person's name under a post like this will never get anyone to send in a 50. Badgering someone like this is exactly why a few would never contribute.

Maybe for some its not a matter of wanting too but a matter of being able too. Or, some, do not wish to contribute money. Some wish to contribute in other ways. Wil lsending a 50 make me any more credible? Wil lit make me a better human? If someone has to be a CM to be accepted in a certain group then I personally wouldn't want to be a part of that group..

If someone is so concerned about who pays or not... maybe they should be first to make a few donations and cover a few of those who did not...
 

iSign

New Member
If Your Name is on this list...are you a contributing member???

WTF is your point?

with all due respect... actually, who's to say what you are "due"... I will point out that as much as you are known and appreciated as one of the "regulars" around here... I don't think you are known for an abundance of valuable information around here. Others here are bringing more to the table in informative posts about many useful topics a lot of us save time and money because of. Those people are the reason many people get here, stay here & contribute here... which in turn becomes the reason merchants get here, stay here & contribute here...

That was an inflammatory comment out of left field, that is not your place to post & I don't see what your point is in the first place... if we contributed this quarter or not can easily be seen if you care, but I ask again... WTF is your point?
 

Marlene

New Member
for the record, I have to say that every time I have posted a thread to ask a question, I have had members answer with info that was very helpful. I've asked for help a couple of times when stuck on a layout and have also had members do all that they can to un-stick me and suggest ideas. When I've needed you, you have been there for me. In return I have offered help to others when I have an answer. I've suggest ideas for layouts and designs. I have also picked on newbies who just bully their way in and expect others to do the work for them. I blasted old timers in the business. I've used four letters words. Pretty much, I think you could insert most of our names into the above description as it's pretty typical of the members here. We can be helpful, we can be jerks, we cn be fuuny or mean. what we have in common is the sign business and I think that we share that pretty well with each otehr.

I would really hate to think that becoming a new member might be difficult as we need new ideas and new people to keep the site fresh. There are times when you might want to see a change but for the most part, I love the site as it is.
 

andy

New Member
This is a great site and there are a lot of knowledgable people on here.... but the same token there have been plenty of free loaders and idiots.

Anyone who wants to get into the sign industry is free to do so but assuming that people who are already in the trade have a moral obligation to spoon feed valuable commercial information to all and sundry is plain naive.

If you gain valuable information from this site which helps you to earn profit from the sign trade then it's hardly unreasonable to pay Fred for making it happen- after all we aren't talking mega money.

To expect FREE training in any industry is nuts.
 
D

DARLAK

Guest
The whole notion of a conversion to paid membership was primarily put out there to make the point that it isn't a good option.

so the poll really wasn't anything about changing the business model, but rather an inane post designed to amuse yourself?
 
D

DARLAK

Guest
Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black

it was meant to be

seems like fred's words he used to describe me fit his little poll exercise perfectly....
 

Flame

New Member
it was meant to be

seems like fred's words he used to describe me fit his little poll exercise perfectly....


If you don't like Fred or the forum, please just leave. If you wish to contribute, than you can do so.

Best of luck Fred. I wouldn't mind seeing a few ways to weed some people/ stuff out, but would hate for the forum to die because of it. Catch 22.

I'd stay if it were free or $50 a month. I'd see it as an investment in my business.
 
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