Discussion So, Why Is It.....................................

[Billct2]

I agree spectrum, the internet is a great source of knowledge, and this forum has been the best for general sign info for a while. I have gotten some great solutions, referrals and product tips here. I have also tried to share what I have picked up along the way. But there has been a lot of infighting and it has thinned the ranks of the knowledgeable participants. It take s two to tangle though, and I never understood why anyone thinks it is so important to "prove their point" or get in the last word. Right now the threads that hold any interest for me are getting less common, mostly seems to be specific technical questions about a specific piece of equipment (which is definitely valuable to those in need) and way too general questions about "which printer is the best and cheapest". Anyhow I hope it gets back on course.

 

[Gino]

I agree spectrum, the internet is a great source of knowledge, and this forum has been the best for general sign info for a while. I have gotten some great solutions, referrals and product tips here. I have also tried to share what I have picked up along the way. But there has been a lot of infighting and it has thinned the ranks of the knowledgeable participants. It take s two to tangle though, and I never understood why anyone thinks it is so important to "prove their point" or get in the last word. Right now the threads that hold any interest for me are getting less common, mostly seems to be specific technical questions about a specific piece of equipment (which is definitely valuable to those in need) and way too general questions about "which printer is the best and cheapest". Anyhow I hope it gets back on course.

It goes without saying, this place has been a great place to get all kindsa information, for supplies, parts, installation questions, tips, networking and most of all.... some life-long friendships. However, some things come to an end and some going on ticking like the old Timex watches. I think more importantly though, is to keep this going as you put it... gets back on course..... we need to offer up some recourse to stop some of the nonsense. However, I disagree about proving a point or having the last word. When someone asks a direct question to someone, are you not obligated to answer it.... or is that cyber-space bad manners ?? I don't see it as fueling, if you are indeed still answering an unknown. Do you consider that having, a 'last word' ?? As for the proving a point angle.... when so many here tend to not understand or grasp a simple idea, I believe it is up to the author to make themselves more clear, so as not to be misunderstood.

I agree wholeheartedly about the content, though. That was kinda the point, people are asking such vague questions, which are also beyond basics these days... and when asked to further illustrate or explain their needs, they get bent outta shape and an argument ensues.

So far, the sticky idea is the best. Can we continue to figure out what's wrong, or according to some, it's just the same ol' same ol' ?? That's the attitude that kills this place.

 

[Billct2]

Personally if I have an "answer" to a question I try to give my information and let it go at that without getting into a long back & forth if they disagree.If they ask for clarification or a follow up questions that's not the same as a thread that devolves into a personality clash. Though sometimes I do make a parting shot at someone who is being a jerk. But then I also ignore them going forward. I don't think there is an "institutional" solution, it's all about personalities and etiquette.

 

[bob]

An obscure tenet of Usenet, back before the most of you were born, states that whoever gets in the last word loses.

 

[equippaint]

I disagree with recourse to stop "nonsense". Many things that you may consider nonsense many others including myself may consider informative. I consider the paint questions nonsense but try to answer them when they pop up. If you took on a job where you had to spray something, shouldn't you already know this stuff or sub it out to someone who does? I'd say no to both. There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone trying to better themselves and expand their horizon. You don't have to reply to every thread, if it's something beneath you than just skip it if you cant drag yourself into posting a helpful no confrontational response.
Remember that just knowing how to do something will not make you successful at a business, restaurants are a great example. On the other hand, not knowing anything about a trade when starting out doesn't mean that you wont be successful at it either. To me the trade is the easy part to learn, its business knowledge and strategy that's much harder to teach and learn.

 

[Marlene]

there's a big difference between a person who asks a question about a sign type or method that they've never done before and a person who asks how to make a sign. the site name does make it sound more like it is a how to make a sign rather than how do I make this kind of sign.

 

[Gino]

Okay, let's slow down here. Some of you are starting to go down that road, Adrian, was talking about. We're not debating who's right or wrong or what came first.... we're talking about people receiving the information they need and then get all ugly about how someone said something or what exact words they used or even if it was condescending.

So, how can we fix the problem of people coming here for the first time or for the 100th time and not understanding people are genuinely helping, but just they don't realize it ??

Y'all wanna twist and turn other threads, go right on ahead........ but not this one.

At the rate of good people dropping outta here, we either fix it, fix it now...... or watch this place completely deteriorate. If you people don't see this happening right in front of your eyes..... then perhaps, you're at the wrong forum.

These new people have gone to a lotta trouble to spruce this place up, get new/more membership and still attract more advertisers. It's up to us to keep this place professional or Hobbytown USA.

 

[Marlene]

These new people have gone to a lotta trouble to spruce this place up, get new/more membership and still attract more advertisers. It's up to us to keep this place professional or Hobbytown USA.

that isn't something the members can do, it is the site owner's thing to allow or to let in the hobby people. all the members can do is to ignore them

 

[Gino]

that isn't something the members can do, it is the site owner's thing to allow or to let in the hobby people. all the members can do is to ignore them

Of course it is what we, as members can do. Someone began this place back in 2003, I think, Fred took it over after a few years and now these people have made further changes to the place and we now have what we have. We cannot change the color of the drapes or the quality of the company they keep, but we can as a group..... on a whole, create an atmosphere that is professional, instead of letting these few a$$wipes (hacks) do all the controlling around here. No need for hall monitors or snitches....... just a professional appraoch to anything and everything.

If someone new is asking a question, check out their profile, ask them some questions and if they don't understand, help them the best ya can, but don't give away the farm. No need to answer silly questions like how much would you charge for this or how do you hinge vinyl or whatever. The fundamentals are for learning on your own time. Come here to hone your talents and become aggressive in this industry. Let the person asking the questions form a real question with real content, instead of us all, guessing what they're talking about. If they can't conduct themselves as professionals, screw 'em. Let them alone and don't be a patsy.

We as professionals have every right to answer what we want and to whom we want, so I am not saying this is how it is to be done, but just think about who or what you are giving answers to. Things should be earned, not given away.

 

[equippaint]

So why don't you just answer the questions that you want to and leave other posters alone that you consider unworthy of help? Not everyone is on the same level and just because they aren't doesn't make them a hack. Just because someone doesn't understand how to hinge a graphic doesn't make them stupid or make the question silly. For all you know they could be a huge screen printing company looking to expand into printing or maybe a shop that just makes sign boxes and doesn't really know some things that you consider basic but knows another side of the business. Maybe a company that only does sandblasted signs and the printing side is foreign to them. What about the family members and spouses of shop owners that unexpectedly die and suddenly they're in a tough spot to quickly figure out the business that was thrown in their lap in order to take care of their family? They come here looking for help and there is nothing wrong with that, in fact Id praise them for doing it. As far as pricing, whats the big issue with that too? I see complaint after complaint about lowballers but no one willing to assist with showing them the right direction to not kill the market. The give away the farm thing, I mean come on. There's more and better information all over the internet. Believe me, you not answering their question is not going to stop them from what they are trying to do.
I grew up around this business, not as old as many here but, we did hand painted signs in addition to cut vinyl off the old school gerber. If you needed full color you painted it or screen printed. I have plenty of "silly" questions because the sign industry that Im familiar with did not have printers until later and I'm playing catch up. Am I not allowed to be here anymore?
This is why people give butthurt responses here. The majority of the attacks on the posters are totally unwarranted. I find this approach to us hack people very insulting and take personal offense to it. It's one thing to give a light hearted funny response to something dumb but its totally different to be insulting. You need to reevaluate your boundaries, nobody here is your employee to denigrate as you see fit.
For all the talk about making this place professional, calling people "a$$wipes" and "hacks" doesn't really fit the narrative.

 

[hcardwell93]

Personally I think that if you have thin skin Gino's questions can come across jerk-ish. However I do think what he's trying to do is force the OP to use critical thinking to learn from the situation. If the OP is truly seeking to learn then the questions are valuable. If the OP just got in over his head and is looking for someone to bail out their bacon then butthurt will ensue.

I've read through a ton of old threads here and Gino's questions force me to come up with context for the situation and have helped me develop standards for how I run my shop from the raw materials, techniques, and pricing that I use, and it's kept me out of a few potential jams.

I see it as the "teach a man to fish" approach. Yes a specific question can be answered quickly, but if the person asking it doesn't truly understand everything that goes into the question is it really that much help? In math classes I could find the answer to the question in the back of the text book so that I could pass the homework assignment, but it did not help me learn math.

 

[bob]

I've been plying these waters for some years now and my lack of interest in Making It A better Place or Succoring Those Less Informed or any other Pollyannaesque nonsense approaches total. The particular site is run for-profit by a coven of folk who give every appearance of those that could not care less about the quality ,or lack thereof, of discourse hereabouts. It's certainly not in my job description to go out into the canebrake and live-trap people to participate. That's their problem, I have sufficient problems of my own to worry about someone else's.

Here's how it works, here or most anywhere else:

Someone posts. Someone responds. If the post is stupid or erudite and if the response is tender and caring or rude. So what? Is there any organism in the galaxy, the aforementioned Polllyannas notwithstanding, that cares a dollop of ossified wombat snot? Is anything that occurs in these waters going to change the course of history?

For moi this place is endlessly entertaining regardless of any information content.

 

[Johnny Best]

Like bob says, I come here for the entertainment, I also like AFV, especially when it involves a chainsaw and a tree. I watch it while eating ice cream with a dollop of wombat snot on top.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Asking why I bid on a project or am I insured, are not critical thinking questions. Those are questions with attitude and shows an anger. If you couldn't or wouldn't answer my OP question, then excuse yourself from the discussion because your not helping.

 

[Rick]

Asking why I bid on a project or am I insured, are not critical thinking questions. Those are questions with attitude and shows an anger. If you couldn't or wouldn't answer my OP question, then excuse yourself from the discussion because your not helping.

Having been on many sign sites, I can attest these are good questions... many many times sign people come on here asking about project out of their skill level... things they may never consider... like insurance, the need for a contractors license, permitting, codes. Asking can be an ego/anger issue, it can also be a warning to the OP that there are other things to consider besides how this is done or where can I get that. I met my business partner here because I gave them something to think about before proceeding with a project, not everyone here is a jerk.

 

[equippaint]

Asking why I bid on a project or am I insured, are not critical thinking questions. Those are questions with attitude and shows an anger. If you couldn't or wouldn't answer my OP question, then excuse yourself from the discussion because your not helping.

I agree 100%. These slights arent clever and anyone with 1/2 a brain can see right through it.

 

[bob]

Asking why I bid on a project or am I insured, are not critical thinking questions. Those are questions with attitude and shows an anger. If you couldn't or wouldn't answer my OP question, then excuse yourself from the discussion because your not helping.

You don't seem to understand how all of this works sport...

When it's your turn to post you get to post whatever it might please you to post.

When and if someone might choose to respond they get to post whatever it might please them to post.

Whether or not you find a response useful, irritating, insulting, or whatever, the one thing you do not get to do is tell someone to, and I quote, "...excuse yourself from the discussion..." or in any other way tell anyone what is acceptable and perhaps pleasing to your delicate sensibilities. That, you unspeakable twit, will end in the gates of hell opening upon you and you incurring the wrath of the forces of darkness. So to speak.

So go now and write when you learn how. Or not. No one cares.

 

[Bly]

I've been on here ages too and I still don't think I've got the hang of it.
I mean my printer broke the other day and I just phoned a tech who came & diagnosed the issue in a couple of hours..

 

[Johnny Best]

Critical thinking. Now that's something you seem to not know about. That was the point of this post by the OP in the first place. Someone gives you advice and you don't like what you read so you lash back at them.
Action, reaction.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I'm simply calling you guys out on your hate. You guys got all fired up about someone bucking up against your attitude that Gino started this thread. I'm obviously not changing your way of thinking, but it's on record now that I don't agree with your sarcastic questions and behavior.

You'll sit there and defend your position by saying "I'm sick of the dumb nobb questions, we're asking questions to their questions because we know more then they and they can't see we're doing it to help, blah blah blah. People see though you guys, I guess they just don't want to waste their time saying anything about the flamers.

I'm done responding to you people, complete waste of time... I have signs to make