The Bad Wrap update

[SignBurst PCs]

Photoshop and Illustrator are simply two tools that were created to work together, one for raster elements and the other for vector. Neither are meant to be your sole source of design and if you are using only one, you are limiting yourself.

I have seen many GREAT vector designs, many GREAT raster designs, and even more GREAT designs using both. Yes, there are poor designs, but that isn't a result of the software. Software is only a tool. No software can be held responsible for great or poor designs. Dan and Joe create great designs because of their skill, not because of the software they choose to work in.

My point is simply that they should be used in conjunction with one another. With large format design, design performance can be a killer and I would rather work in Photoshop and use Illustrator in a supporting role. If for no other reason that, with a good computer, Photoshop is much better equipped to work with larger raster images. With the ability to use vector Smart Objects in Photoshop, you have the best of both worlds. You have all the vector tools and scalability of Illustrator plus all of the image manipulation and potential performance of Photoshop (64 Bit). It is really a win-win.

I am not here to tell anyone that they are doing anything wrong or criticize anything. I am just offering a potential time saver and an alternative design process.

 

[signswi]

...what? Where'd that random and nonsensical insult come from? Joe and Dan both have styles that make the most sense in Illustrator, they're talented people using the right tool for the job. If they were working in a style that made more sense in Photoshop they'd use Photoshop. How is that ignorant? Where are you coming from? Get some coffee and a cookie.

 

[HulkSmash]

I love this! Lets make sure we are all on the same page and discussing the same thing to make the terms equal.

Artwork- Can be created either via raster or vector formats. Agreed?

Design- This is objectionably judged based on ones experience, knowledge and

skill set. To the laymen both of those may or may not be good design however amongst professionals the bar is higher. Agreed?

Skill- An artist with skill can design in microsoft paint and do a better job than someone without skill working in photoshop, illustrator, corel, flexi etc. Agreed?

That being said- The examples you showed me were great/ awesome/ outstanding designs that are vector based but... created at the hand of a very skilled artist whom I would be willing to bet, if he wanted to could kick arse in photoshop as well.

This example is arguably a good raster design.

http://www.coroflot.com/bradzilla/portfolio - Another great example of an Artist who designs primarily in photoshop.

This one took best of show in one of the sign mags-
http://www.thewrapshoppe.com/car-wraps-photos/the_wrap_shoppe/car_wraps/_DSC0529_for web (1).jpg#

all photoshop based.
And last but not least- This is a girl in Tucson who makes most of us look like crayon artists in illustrator.

http://lifeinvector.com/vectors/

Good design is good design. Photoshop VS illustrator is like saying Tyson VS Tito Ortiz or maybe like saying Micheal Angelo VS Micheal Jackson.

It all boils down to what is going to make you the most productive artist, make your clients phone ring and provide an honest living for you and your employees.

At the end of the day I have personally seen clients demand garbage designs and pay a ton for it and leave happier than a pig in (*&!.

You will never hear me bash Mr. Clip art or PVO or anyone else for that matter, if you work in photoshop and want a great template ill help you out. If not no worries I will still help if I can. I personally suggest you have as many tools as possible.

Once again, I truly respect your opinion and your thoughts on the matter are most certainly relevant!

That was a mouthful... Back to work.

Respectfully,


Sergio

i 100% agree with you sergio. Alot of those wraps you linked are illy/Corel wraps too... in any case yes you can work with any program - AGREED....

we got off track a bit - i guess that's my fault. But i still feel illustrator is better for sizing and fitting wraps getting them ready for print.

Also the beer bottle one.. i would have cut that, and then done the layout in illustrator.

It's been fun sergio

 

[Bobby H]

Skill- An artist with skill can design in microsoft paint and do a better job than someone without skill working in photoshop, illustrator, corel, flexi etc. Agreed?

That's true in principal. However, there is absolutely no such thing as a single graphics program that can "do it all" and do so correctly. Any serious artist who works with computers isn't going to mess around with a very impractical application like MS Paint.

Photoshop is great for editing photos and creating certain kinds of raster based art. Photoshop sucks badly at handling type and it is limited in many respects with how it can create graphic objects. Take outlines around letters for instance. Illustrator flat out schools Photoshop when it comes to making outlines around letters or logos. You have more control over how the corners look. The end result is razor sharp.

For most large format printing purposes, including quite a few vehicle wraps, I prefer bringing Photoshop-generated elements into Illustrator and being able to output both raster-based and vector-based graphics in the final product. Vector-based logos and type simply end up looking a lot better when they are output as vector-based objects. Plus items like vector-based clipping masks can help enhance the borders/edges of imported raster-based elements.

 

[Joe Diaz]

I downloaded the lambo template. Is it just that one tiff? As a Corel user what I think would be great is to have a vector shape of the body part of that car to go along with that tiff. Then in Corel you could then design your panels within that vector shape using the powerclip feature. Plus another nice thing about CorelDraw is I could do it all to scale. When that design has been approved, I would go within that power clipped vector shape grab my panels (as is) and export them for print. CorelDRAW is a kick a$$ wrap design software. I think it would be a mistake to ignore it's impact or potential in our industry. If I were running Badwrap, I would consider reaching out to Corel and other design software users. If most of the wrap designers YOU know strictly use photoshop that's one thing, but wouldn't you want to reach out to all the designers you don't know too? It just means more business for you.

Anyway, If I were to ever use something like Badwrap I would need to create that vector path... which can be done. It's not hard. It just would be a nice time saver if that part was packaged in with the tiff.


Now my opinions on Raster vs Vector. I like to build brands not just vehicle graphics. So when I do, I'm always thinking about how that design will be used. Vector can be blown up or resized without a loss of quality, it can be used as cut paths, it can be reshaped, welded, trimmed. it's clean. It's flexible. I'll use raster too if the application calls for it. The software I use allows me to work with both so I have no bias towards one or the other. It's just about knowing when it's appropriate to use one or the other.

I think some designers, especially a lot of wrap only designers may not see how their wrap design fits with the rest of the brand. I hope I'm not out of line saying this, and I don't want to offend, but SOME wrap designers seem to focus on only creating some sort of wow factor on that wrap. They fail to see how it fits with the rest of that business's brand. Furthermore, their drive to create something that is just meant to turn heads sometimes becomes counterproductive to their true goal which is to help their client advertise. I can't count how many times a wrap has passed me by and I've "turned my head" only to later to ask "what's that say?" Most of the time I never find out what it says. I either don't have the time, or I lost interest. And I notice designs, imagine the average person who isn't as aware of this stuff.

These raster effects and crazy textures are like salt. A little here or there MAY improve the taste of your meal, but when you empty the whole salt shaker onto your plate of food, it become uneatable. Just like with wraps, If the effects overpower the message, and you can't read a damn thing, what is the point? If their is no tie in to the rest of that clients brand, what is the point? Again I don't want to offend, but when I look at a good majority of the wraps out there, they fall short of those goals. I know some wrap designers are the exception to that rule, so if you happen to be one of them, keep up the solid work, and start publishing more of your work. Your peers need to see how it should be done.

 

[GAC05]

Wayne,
ALL of our templates are set up at 10% 720 dpi. There is a very long complicated mathematical reason for this but I won't bore you with the details. However it came about after working with Adobe's large format team to in essence cheat photoshop into scaling smaller images in a larger format.

If you take your "image size" and move the decimal over to the right 1 space and change the dpi to 72 you will see the actual size of the template in "inches" you will find that this is the exact size of a real life Lambo.

Sergio

Sergio thanks for taking the time to reply to my post.
I did understand the file dimensions, I'm more on the
"design with vectors add raster effects second" side of the house.
But I'm open to hear how others do their thing.

From the vector side I don't need a 14,000 pixel wide template that is going to slow down my quadcore & will not be part of the final print file.
I take your 120meg Lambo tif and reduce it to 1400 pixels - gives me a 426kb file.
In Draw I scale (not resample just transform) it up to full production size
On the screen I now have a 7dpi template to work over.
It looks the same on screen as its 10x larger father.
I can then do my vector treatments in layers over the top.
I can also also generate or load raster elements on top of this low-rez template at the dpi I need. Each element's dpi does not have to match up until export time.
Draw does seem to handle raster effects better than Illustrator (I have both CS5 and X5) at least for what I do with them.
Once I have everything I need laid out I can generate the bitmap at the production size required with all of the raster effects at the correct dpi.
This is pretty much the workflow with eps vehicle line drawings. Vectors & bitmaps living together with side trips to the photo editor to get those "special" effects.

Even with access to the latest fastest hardware there is still something to be had in setting up an efficient workflow that allows the same end result and leaves a little breathing room with your hardware/software limits.

Thanks again for participating in this forum, it's a treat to interact with people who have made a name for themselves in this industry.


wayne k
guam usa

 

[Brandex.ca]

I just wanted to jump in here and say my piece about "The Bad Wrap" templates. I have recently started using them, actually the last one I needed he didnt have but it didnt take him long to create it for me and it was very well done... very easy to use and produced great results, I am sold on the system. He also provides some of the best customer support/service I have ever seen anywhere. I cant say anything about the older templates or about the owners before because I have no experience there but he is sure doing something right with it now. He is also a very nice person to talk to. For programs I like to use Photoshop and Corel together, actually I will make the switch from Corel to Illustrator soon as it would make more sence but Corel was what I started using first and I know it well. I say use what you like to use... they all have their place.

 

[lexsigns]

Sign lab 9 has an add on that has all the templates and will turn into a 3D presentation. I use signlab 9 but I don't have the client base or need for the add on. It looks really cool and they have come a long way as far as what I can do with it compared to Adobe and Corel.
Of course each software has it's own things we like or get used to but I find myself using the new signlab more often for things I used to have to in another program(like transparency) check it out at cadlink.com

 

[TheSellOut]

Great post Joe, and one hell of an analogy with the "salt"! If the meal is cooked to perfection...you won't even need salt. Too many just start dumping it on before taking a bite!

 

[Dan Antonelli]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess they both are using Illustrator because it fits their design style, not because they're stuck in it.

Way to insult them guys!

No insult interpreted - it's all good.

Similar to Joe, we design brands first. A primary reason why most wraps fail has a lot to do with lack of brand integration.

I look at all vehicle advertising as a primary way to raise brand awareness. Photographs, except perhaps for products, do not foster brand awareness. That HVAC wrap with the photo of the HVAC unit does not foster brand awareness. The green grass and blue sky for the solar company does not promote their brand. You get the idea...

My next SignCraft article has my Top 5 ways to design an effective wrap. #1 is start with an effective brand. #2, is don't use photos. Lot of guys may disagree, but if the photo doesn't promote the brand, than what exactly do you need it for? In general, its a crutch for a poor brand, or a meaningless brand which does not clue in the viewer as to the nature of the business (which for a small business, is disastrous).

We rarely design wraps for companies who's brand's we don't design - primarily because they usually are horrible starting points for an effective wrap. They can either accept that critique before they waste their money, or proceed with another sign company who will happily assist them in flushing their money down the toilet.

Ironically many say 'no one's ever told me told before.' Amazing how you can disarm a client by simply stating you do it my way, or we don't do it all. It does get them thinking. Our agency is interested in building small business brands, and integrating them in meaningful ways on web, collateral and outdoor. If they understand that, its an easy sell.

I will say this though- many are indeed smarting up about it. Most who seek us are tired of the poor wrap designs they see on the road, and they certainly understand we have a different approach. We are doing wrap designs for small business all over the country (even in UK and Australia), and people will pay good money for people who know how to do it right.

Once you stop producing a commodity to be be bought by square footage prices and start selling a service that they can't get from every shop within 10 miles of yours, you can name your own price for what you are selling.

And for the record, I design in Freehand still. I export to Illustrator for my clients to have printed by their local sign shop. I am very weak in Illustrator, but slowing learning. After 25 years on Freehand, old habits die hard, and I just find Freehand to be easier to do some tasks. It's days are numbered since it wont run on Snow Leopard - so I'm slowly transitioning (key word 'slowly'). The last thirty wrap designs I've personally done, none use Photoshop.

 

[lexsigns]

Gary,
Great questions.
1. Plans are to rebuild it to be a trusted source for designers to get jobs designed quickly and accurately. Believe me I know there are some trust issues and those take time to rebuild.
2. 4 things here, 1 we are adding panel guidelines so you know where we would cut the file up for a seamless install, we are adding the vehicle info with measurements from the manufacturer in the form of a ready to use pre inspection form, we are templating each trim package for all new cars ( meaning you will be designing on your clients vehicle and trim package, just incase there are differences i.e. a hood scoop.) and we are including the RGB factory paint codes for partial wrap design.
3. introductory prices are going up tomorrow. email me for a special code that will get you updates for 1 year for 120.00 The new price will be much higher.
4. Yes we are planning to support this product and lessons learned, I will be here for the long term with The Bad Wrap.

admin@thebadwrap.com

hope this answers your questions.

Cool when will it be out I want to try it what will cost be for whole software not an upgrade?

 

[lexsigns]

Really good advise Dan-

 

[SightLine]

The full retail pricing is on the site....

http://thebadwrap.com/ocart/index.php