Thinking of buying the SignWarehouse Vehicle Wrap Kit

Molenbeek

Member
I would highly recommend to at least get the 54" printer.

The other thing to consider is to get the actual Mutoh ValueJet and the actual Graphtec cutter. The ones may be made by them but don't have all the functionality and Mutoh and Graptec will not help with any support what so ever. You are on your own.
 

Dice

Active Member
+1 for not thinking you are in the sign biz and looking for cheap do-it-yourself Paul Jr. type of person.

Sorry, but this is the type of crap that I hate. Leave the printing to the printers.

Counting the days until i see a Paul Jr Printer.
 

kstompaint

Active Member
I don't understand why anyone would buy a Mutoh
Because they're cost effective and the print quality is fantastic, maybe? Call me crazy but that's why we got ours.

Also, I know that you're satisfied with your SW experience, but you should really consider giving Fellers a shot at it. The Graphtec plotter is very good and the Seal laminator is definitely worth the extra money, the thing is bullet proof. Most importantly, Fellers service and tech support is second to none. That will be very valuable to you when you need it.
 

Techman

Major Contributor
I observed this very thought process back when vinyl cutting was king. I watched as a source of business got their own cutter and let their "inhouse" guy do the cutting and design.

I watched them spend a bunch of money trying to make their own system work. All for naught. They later called me asking me if I was interested in purchasing their "used" machine.

They later called me and asked me to do their subbing for the vinyl work they sold as I had advised them in the first place.

You should do the same. Get some suppliers to handle your printing needs. Otherwise you wil lspend a lot of money getting up to speed then find out its all a waste of time.
 

jdoug5170

Member
So...Tomld...

I'm in the printed vinyl business. I print and cut decals and wraps for most anything people want.

What I'm thinking is that by printing several thousand of these special wraps that promote my vinyl business and wrapping a awesome vehicle such as you are providing...I could really reap some big benefits.

Of course, now I have to begin to manufacture a vehicle, similar to yours that I will provide my customers at no cost so that my vinyl wrap business will be seen world wide. Main reason for this is, I have to keep my costs down and really can't see any reason to support your business where you have already made the investment and time to be a professional at what you do.

So...can you please advise as to where I can obtain the very best equipment to make what you make? Sure hope you don't mind that I'm going to flooding the market with the same base product as you and take bread from your dinner table with each one I put out there.

You have been given some good advise here. Sub out the stuff you don't do in house and that you are not experienced at. I imagine that you are the type of business that will represent yourself in court in the event of a lawsuit because you can by books to follow! Sheesh.

Doug
 

tomld

New Member
I may be off on this info but here goes:

1) I would go larger on the printer - 54"
Reason being, you may find not all vendors carry media for the 48" or not all the media you want to use is available in 48"

2) If you are going to be wrapping ATV's snowmobiles, motorcycles and so on you are probably going to need to use convex.
I'm not sure how much this runs but I'd bet it's more than 3951. You might want to find that out.

3) Have you tried subbing out? If not you may want to give it a try. Here are a few reasons:
a) The learning curve is going to cost you
b) You may find whatever vendor you pick to be very helpful with what materials to use and so on
c) Do you have a clean room for this setup? If not you're going to need one.
d) Did the wrap kit include the software to run the equipment? If not add a few grand to your total
e) Do you or the person that will be running these machines have any design experience? Or knowledge of these machines?
f) Do you have the templates for these vehicles?
g) In the end it's not just about print & cut - there's way more to it.

4) Promotional wraps (discounted or free) I would assume you are making money on the backend somewhere - not that it's any of my business. We sign people don't like hearing stuff is going to be free - just saying

Anyway, I would do as much research as possible before you buy anything.
If you use the search feature on this site you will probably find answers to all your questions and more.
Best of luck


Great point on the media size. I'll research and see what they carry at our local supplier. Can you explain why convex may be needed for rec vehicles?

I've priced subbing it out and the quote came back at $6.00 sqft. 3x the inhouse materials cost and having to wait longer for production and shipping. But I do like the hands off advantages. Is it worth it? Not sure.

We don't currently have a clean room, but we do have plenty of space in our warehouse to setup a vinyl room.

I personally have many years of design experience with the whole Adobe CS3 suite, including a lot of vector work. And as I've said before I do have experience with a basic SW plotter for several years.

Again, thanks for the info. This is what i'm after and it's been very helpful. I do understand there will be a learning curve. There always is and EVERYONE on this forum has gone through it. I feel with existing design experience and basic plotter experience I'm not starting at square 1. But still have much to learn.
 

ProWraps

Very Active Member
$6.00 good god. if you are that bad at doing your research, then i can only imagine how this will turn out for you! hell give me $4.99!!! and ill hook you up BROOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
 

tomld

New Member
I don’t want to know anything. You do. :noway:


Your first post seemed legit, until you spoke later on in other posts about the cutter you already have and the 1000 yards of vinyl you have [which equates to about 6 rolls or so] is nothing…. and no mention of these things or that you even work anywhere, let alone have software or experience and then you want to waltz in here and get all kinds of information for free. You talk the talk, but you hardly understand it and you my friend sound a bit peculiar and a little too defensive to be on the up & up.

You made mention that you aren’t in the wrap business and never will be, but your profile says 100% the opposite… so what gives with all the false information ?? Do we believe what you said to get in here or believe what you’re telling us now ??

I have no worry about competition with you or anybody else, so I have no idea why you would think I care about you or your business plan… especially since you’re 3,000 miles away.

You want us all to open up and pour our hearts and sole into your answers, but you are remaining so elusive, I have no idea why anyone would want to help you. Can you tell me why you are being so cryptic ?? Are you telling us everything ??

Then again, you tell us you’re not interested in making money…. and then you come back and tell us you are, but indirectly…. Whadafug is that chit ?? You sell 1,000’s of T-shirts, make no mention of that equipment in your profile, but make no indication if you sub them out or not. So, you either are lying through your teeth to get in here and pick our brains…. or you’re lying about your plans. I for one could care less what you buy or what your reasons are for needing this stuff, but to falsely represent yourself on so many levels is why I questioned your profile……

If this isn’t positive enough for you….. sorry ‘bout that. :toasting:


Gino, I apologize that I have riled you up in such a manner. Let me re-explain my points here to, hopefully alleviate your concerns.

My previous plotter experience has all been in house, again making small decals, truck window decals, small trailer decals all of our brand & logo. These are made on a sub $1000 SW plotter purchased years ago. Thousands of yards of vinyl is alot when your talking about decals 12" and smaller (atleast for me, when I was doing the weeding!). I'll gladly give you the plotter name and model number if that'll answer your questions.

My statement of not being in the wrap business is that we will NEVER be doing custom wrap jobs or even standard wraps that are for the purpose of helping our brand awareness. When I hear the term "wrap business" I think of a company who's clients request custom projects for their businesses. We will never be a B2B vinyl shop. Again our purpose is to increase the visibility of our internal brand with the use of vinyl wraps. I think we can agree when making solely internal designs and projects for consumers, we are not in the same wrap business that you and others on this board are in. For example if we had a request for a custom vehicle wrap, we would refer to a local sign shop such as yourself. Not that anyone would even know we offer vinyl services, aside from selling pre-made vinyl kits for a very niche market.

Money: As i've said from post 1, these are promotional wraps we will make. We do not need to profit directly from the sale of any vinyl material. That is not our intention or core business. Never will be. I've never mispoke or wavered from this position. It's a brand building campaign. Increasing brand awareness within a market provides long term return when consumers are shopping for the core product your company offers. Which isnt vinyl.

TSHIRTS: We do a large volume of soft goods. Not just tshirts, but also hoodies, full zips, beanies, flexfits, jerseys, etc. These are of course not made in house. These are made in the same factories that produce FOX, DC, Volcom, Oakley, etc apparel. These are custom made to the fullest (custom size charts, hand picked fabric, ink printed, screen printed, custom tags, custom zipper pulls, all over prints, hang tags, and individually packaged). We're not a tshirt company and would never have the capacity or staff to do what these established factories provide for us.

So I hope I have cleared up some of your concerns. If not, I'll gladly do what I can to make you realize I'm on the up and up and simply want to purchase from wrap equipment for a branding campaign we are interested in. Fair enough?
 

cdiesel

Very Active Member
Read the linked thread below, as I broke things down pretty well to illustrate how these situations usually play out.

http://www.signs101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67072&highlight=trailers

If you're going to spend $17k on a printer setup, not to mention the rest of the goodies that go with it, learning how to use the machine, and the inherent waste you'll generate, your ROI is going to be very, very far down the road. By my math, figuring your cost of materials -vs- the cost of the machine, you'd have to buy over 8500 square feet before you even break even on the equipment.

I'd strongly suggest finding a reliable, competitve wholesaler who can print these for you.

We're not a tshirt company and would never have the capacity or staff to do what these established factories provide for us.

This quote puzzles me. Why would you not just go buy a manual press and print your own t-shirts? It's much easier to pull a squeegee than it is to run a digital printer...
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
You're a funny one.

Anyway, good luck in whatever it is that you intend to do, but don't do.
 

Fred Weiss

Merchant Member
Here's the thing Tomld ...

You are asked when you register as to where you would classify yourself and you checked
I am, was or want to be in the sign making profession.
Yet from many of your posts in this thread, it seems obvious to me and others that you have no plans to ever play the role of professional sign maker or any other graphics specialty. You simply do not find it convenient or satisfactory to obtain what you need from a professional outsource.

Here is our stated rule direct from our home page:

Signs 101 is a community of sign making professionals interested in improving our skills as well as helping other professionals to do the same. If you are, were or want to be a professional sign maker, or if you work in a related graphic field, are a manufacturer or supplier to the sign trade, or a teacher or student interested in the craft, you are invited to join. Individuals or organizations seeking information or help in order to avoid working with a professional sign maker are not accepted as members.

So unless I am provided with some reason or explanation to the contrary, I am going to conclude that you are not seeking to be a professional in the sign or graphics trades and terminate your membership here shortly after 5PM eastern time.
 

Sign_Boy

Major Contributor
Great point on the media size. I'll research and see what they carry at our local supplier. Can you explain why convex may be needed for rec vehicles?

I did a quick search and found this:
http://www.signs101.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1060924

Try searching on the site and I'm sure you'll find more info.
From my basic understanding (I never had to use the stuff) regular vinyl is not going to hold up on the plastic used on these vehicles.


I've priced subbing it out and the quote came back at $6.00 sqft. 3x the inhouse materials cost and having to wait longer for production and shipping.

Were they retail or wholesale?
I'm sure if you do a search in our merchant member section you'll probably find someone that can help.

http://www.signs101.com/pp-classifieds/merchant-member-directory/index21.html

But I do like the hands off advantages. Is it worth it? Not sure.

If you don't have experience with the equipment - yes it's well worth it. Why dish out all that capital when you can outsource? Like cdiesel said - if you can outsource shirts why not printing?
Remember the printer doesn't maintain itself - factor in maintenance cost. If you outsource the stuff you don't have to worry about any of that.

We don't currently have a clean room, but we do have plenty of space in our warehouse to setup a vinyl room.

You are going to need a clean production area and if you ever intend to install any of these prints a clean area is a must. Remember to add the cost of building out this clean room to the cost of your equipment, software & supplies.

I personally have many years of design experience with the whole Adobe CS3 suite, including a lot of vector work. And as I've said before I do have experience with a basic SW plotter for several years.

It's a start, but remember designing for a vehicle wrap is much different than designing for a flat surface or your typical prints - much different.

Again, thanks for the info. This is what i'm after and it's been very helpful. I do understand there will be a learning curve. There always is and EVERYONE on this forum has gone through it. I feel with existing design experience and basic plotter experience I'm not starting at square 1. But still have much to learn.


In all why not contact a few merchant members on this site and see if they can help with your needs. It doesn't hurt to make a few calls. You may be surprised what you find.

Like I mentioned before poke around using the search feature on the site and the amount of helpful info you find will probably blow your mind.
 

JBarraxSW

Member
Hi Tomld.
As you've noted there is a fair amount of back and forth about what you can and can't do with our PrismJET VJ48. We hear many objections from competitors that are simply not true. As Heather probably told you already, we have the 48” printer as an exclusive in North America. Other Mutoh dealers cannot sell it. Perhaps this is why there’s so much disinformation about the product.
The assertion that you can't find ecosolvent print media less than 54" wide is one of the sillier statements we hear from these folks. :rolleyes:

Fact number one. We have hundreds of 48" printers in the field, so we stock a wide variety of media for this printer.

Fact number two. There are also 30" printers in the field that need and use even smaller ecosolvent print media. So there is plenty of print media available that's 50" and less.

For a quick peek at our range of print media for the 48" PrismJET, click here. We have over 100 options for this printer including 4 different brands of 2mil cast vinyls suitable for wrapping vehicles; even snowmobiles.

Feel free to give me a call if you have any other questions.
Best regards,
 

Sign_Boy

Major Contributor
Hi Tomld.
As you've noted there is a fair amount of back and forth about what you can and can't do with our PrismJET VJ48. We hear many objections from competitors that are simply not true. As Heather probably told you already, we have the 48” printer as an exclusive in North America. Other Mutoh dealers cannot sell it. Perhaps this is why there’s so much disinformation about the product.
The assertion that you can't find ecosolvent print media less than 54" wide is one of the sillier statements we hear from these folks. :rolleyes:

Fact number one. We have hundreds of 48" printers in the field, so we stock a wide variety of media for this printer.

Fact number two. There are also 30" printers in the field that need and use even smaller ecosolvent print media. So there is plenty of print media available that's 50" and less.

For a quick peek at our range of print media for the 48" PrismJET, click here. We have over 100 options for this printer including 4 different brands of 2mil cast vinyls suitable for wrapping vehicles; even snowmobiles.

Feel free to give me a call if you have any other questions.
Best regards,

Not trying to open a can of worms here or be nasty....
From my research SW is one of the few supplier to carry media for this machine - so wouldn't one be captive to SW?
Also if I had a 48" machine why would I want to by 30" media? Why not just buy a 30" printer and save a few $$$?

Just saying.....
 

cdiesel

Very Active Member
I don't know of any local suppliers (heck, even national for that matter) other than SW that stocks 48" material. Sure they can order it in... if you can wait two weeks.
 

JBarraxSW

Member
Good questions Sign Boy.
The answer to the first one is No. We know of other distributors who sell quite a bit of 48" media to customers using our PrismJET VJ48 or the Mutoh ValueJET 1204. So there are other suppliers. They're not as pretty as we are, but hey, nobody's perfect. :)
Some of these are distributors who regularly slit 54" to 50" or less to fit the 1204. The end result is, the customer gets what they need.

Why would you use smaller media? For smaller jobs of course. Not every job you do requires the full print width of the printer. Do people who use 54" printers only sell 5 foot wide banners? Of course not! They sell 3, and four foot banners as well, so they purchase smaller and wider banner rolls. So the simple fact that people still use smaller media rolls for various jobs merely reinforces the fact that you don't need 54" media for everything you print. Therefore not everyone needs a 54" printer in order to be successful.
 
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