Todays school aged kids get gentle grades...

[Gino]

College isn't for everyone. Some people aren't geared for it and guess what, quite a lot of them do well having gone right to work and not building up the massive debt that comes with going to college. College has been propped up too much (and I have several degrees, been though college a lot longer than I would like to say, however, it was all debt free (one reason why it took so long), something that people today need to take into consideration, by the time that I finished compared to when I started, I saw the change in how things were being taught and what was being taught.

Oh and by the way, NYU fired a prof in organic chemistry because he was class was "too hard". A known weed out class, now matter where one goes, it is supposed to be hard. It's supposed to separate the chaff. Most people would want that weed out course.

Very much education is not what it was once was. I too would have though that investing in education would never be a waste, it does depend on what one is learning.

I can understand college, if one is wanting to go into the degrees that are required by law to have (but I'm leary of the ones that come out if students have the ability to get teachers fired because a weed out class, that I knew was hard decades ago): law, medical, some areas of finance (CPA) etc. Everything else, not so much. Especially in tech. Most big tech companies have their own "campus", because what is learned in college is too slow to change. Colleges are a monolith that is done by committee (and we all love those as customers don't we?).

Had this not been posted at 7ish this morning, I'd swear you had been drinking, while doing this.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Had this not been posted at 7ish this morning, I'd swear you had been drinking, while doing this.

Don't touch the stuff, so regardless of what time of the day, don't have that excuse to fall back on.

And having had family members that did have that issue, 7 in the morning wouldn't have mattered.

 

[Stacey K]

I needed a degree to do a job that could have been done by a monkey a few years ago. Now my BF's 2 kids are welders with no degrees...one didn't even graduate high school.

If only I was a young male now, I could work an infinite amount of hours doing random physical things and make a crap load of money. Take that money and invest in real estate and retire at 50.

 

[Gino]

I was accepted at a few colleges before graduating, but the one I wanted to go to, said I hadda wait, til they filled their 'black quota'. I almost didn't get to go, because of that. They just started offering all kindsa incentives of free tuition, no rules or regulations would be applied to them, just sign up. Free books and all kindsa other things. That always p!ssed me off, but I didn't hold it against the black students, just the political idiots of the day. They got in free, didn't learn a danged thing and just slept in classrooms, if they attended and would eventually just stop going, making the next semester even harder to get in til the quota was filled again.

Anyway, going to college isn't at all what it's cranked up to be anymore. Ever listen to what these kids are majoring in ?? Cripes, it's nothing they'll ever ever use or find a job with. It's just a place for about 85% of the students to party away from home on their mommy & daddy's dime........ millions and millions of dimes. The profs don't care if you show up high or drunk for class, they don't care if you smoke in class, they just plain don't give a d@mn about the students, so they all basically lose out.

Kids of today............ Quit school and go out into the world while ya still know everything.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Anyway, going to college isn't at all what it's cranked up to be anymore. Ever listen to what these kids are majoring in ??

Like I said, it isn't what it used to be. My parents still have a different mindset, but the last time that they set foot on a college campus, they were still students.

The one upside of having been in college as long and drawn out as I have, see a lot of changes in various ways, so don't always have the illusion that something is the same as it was when back whenever.

t's just a place for about 85% of the students to party away from home on their mommy & daddy's dime........ millions and millions of dimes.

Don't forget, also on our dime as well.

 

[Gino]

Yes, now it is, but not back when I went. My stepson is still paying off his loans. He's waiting for some nitwit to pass the bill forgiving all college loans.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

College isn't for everyone. Some people aren't geared for it

I also disagree with this and so do many employers. You could say that work isn't for everyone, or this job isn't for everyone but I would argue that this mindset is a large reason why employers have so many issues with employees today. College, like work, is for everyone. It is rigid and is not meant to conform around an individual. It is up to the individual to do whatever they have to do to make it work. This is what employers see, they don't want to hear excuses about how this and that is hard or cut me slack because I have ADD and can not pay attention. If you made it through, chances are you have overcome many of your own personal hurdles which in turn makes you a more dedicated employee that will also see the job through. The ones with the mindset that they can skip the hard stuff because they have a skill that affords them to make good money (good money in your 20s) shows your main priority is money and that does not usually make for a good dedicated employee that wants to learn. Sure you can get out of high school and get a job on a pipe crew making good money as a young person but revisit that when you are in your 50s-60s and youre physically beat. A degree is just another tool in your tool box, it can not be your only tool but it is a handy one to have..
As for dumb degrees, yes there are plenty. Having a stupid degree does not stop you from learning any trade or skills. It will also never hinder you if you are willing to work.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

....

Yes, now it is, but not back when I went. My stepson is still paying off his loans. He's waiting for some nitwit to pass the bill forgiving all college loans.

Yea, it just might have been labeled as such, but if something was government subsidized, it's paid with our taxes. It may have been hidden in some way, just all tossed in there and not spelled out like it is now.

 

[Gino]

I get a kick outta all the 'C' or 'D' lawyers, dentists, doctors, surveyors, builders, etc that are out there. They can't do diddly, so they contive all kindsa loopholes in the system and take shortcuts. Sound familiar in this industry ?? If a kid applies themselves, then they have a chance, but just like all the dingalings in this place.... always looking to cut corners, not work themselves to better themselves, just to make a quick buck on someone. After they fail and leave a mess behind, those of us with gumption hafta put it all back together again. After over 5 decades of that, it gets old.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I also disagree with this and so do many employers. You could say that work isn't for everyone, or this job isn't for everyone but I would argue that this mindset is a large reason why employers have so many issues with employees today. College, like work, is for everyone. It is rigid and is not meant to conform around an individual. It is up to the individual to do whatever they have to do to make it work. This is what employers see, they don't want to hear excuses about how this and that is hard or cut me slack because I have ADD and can not pay attention. If you made it through, chances are you have overcome many of your own personal hurdles which in turn makes you a more dedicated employee that will also see the job through. The ones the mindset that they can skip the hard stuff because they have a skill that affords them to make good money (good money in your 20s) shows your main priority is money and that does not usually make for a good dedicated employee that wants to learn. Sure you can get out of high school and get a job on a pipe crew making good money as a young person but revisit that when you are in your 50s-60s and your physically beat. A degree is just another tool in your tool box, it can not be your only tool but it is a handy one to have..
As for dumb degrees, yes there are plenty. Having a stupid degree does not stop you from learning any trade or skills. It will also never hinder you if you are willing to work.

And yet, why did NYU fire a professor for having a weed out class hard? Where are the trials and tribulations there?

That once was the case that college was like how you described, but it is not this way now. I had gone for many years, I saw the decline. Now could it have been just my college...maybe, but it seems way to wide spread now.

I would actually say depending on what those "stupid degrees" are in, can pass on certain notions that do make one less likely to move on and do something else.

Most people go to college prioritize money and have to with how much college costs, the debt that students have etc.

I have noticed that along with this notion of how good college is, also the notion of how bad other jobs are. And that's a shame, particularly when there is a lack in the workforce of people that are able to do those jobs. That's going to be no bueno.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Anyway, going to college isn't at all what it's cranked up to be anymore. Ever listen to what these kids are majoring in ??

My step father has a degree in music, pretty useless degree. He was a heavy equipment mechanic and welder into his 40s, money was tight, he worked 2 jobs and it was got more physically difficult as time went on. He was on a jobsite and approached about a position with an equipment manufacturer which he took and has been there for 25-30 years. Clean job, not physically demanding but required his same mechanical skills. It required 2 things, field experience in heavy equipment repair and a college degree. Without the useless music degree, he would still be turning wrenches today. That degree did not hurt him but it did open a door that otherwise would have remained closed.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I get a kick outta all the 'C' or 'D' lawyers, dentists, doctors, surveyors, builders, etc that are out there. They can't do diddly, so they contive all kindsa loopholes in the system and take shortcuts. Sound familiar in this industry ?? If a kid applies themselves, then they have a chance, but just like all the dingalings in this place.... always looking to cut corners, not work themselves to better themselves, just to make a quick buck on someone. After they fail and leave a mess behind, those of us with gumption hafta put it all back together again. After over 5 decades of that, it gets old.

Agreed but that is individual, not the system.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

You don't have to take out student loans. Here is a great concept, go to a less expensive school, live cheap and get a job to cover your expenses. Until you get up to grad level stuff classes don't take up much more than a few hours a day.

 

[Gino]

While it is the individual's fault for being lazy and not caring..... it is also the institution's fault for allowing such behavior to go on. This idea that 'no kid left behind' is ridiculous. All it did was to promote pushing kids through that had no claim to their status. Thus, kids of all levels got into college where, instead of having a title for it, you just hadda pay the tuition and ya still got in...... and the profs did nothing to fail useless kids. They just continued on with it, pushing out idiots by the boatloads.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

While it is the individual's fault for being lazy and not caring..... it is also the institution's fault for allowing such behavior to go on. This idea that 'no kid left behind' is ridiculous. All it did was to promote pushing kids through that had no claim to their status. Thus, kids of all levels got into college where, instead of having a title for it, you just hadda pay the tuition and ya still got in...... and the profs did nothing to fail useless kids. They just continued on with it, pushing out idiots by the boatloads.

When I went, the slackers would generally get the boot because their grades would be too low. They'd either move home or apply to the community college so they could still fuck off, party and do the things that got them kicked out to begin with. My roommate was one of them. He got kicked out of the community college too.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

You don't have to take out student loans. Here is a great concept, go to a less expensive school, live cheap and get a job to cover your expenses. Until you get up to grad level stuff classes don't take up much more than a few hours a day.

Thats right. You are talking to some one that didn't take out loans, nor have mommy and daddy pay for it. Again, one of the reasons it took so long for me.

And I did go to a cheaper school, however, since most of my classes centered around science, that still cost more compared to other degrees, so there is still a scale of cost.

Now of course, there is the get what one pays for as well. Cheap school, may indeed mean cheap education. May or may not be true, but there is that as well.

 

[Gino]

Are all those less expensive tuition institutions accredited ?? Also, in college for every hour in the classroom, you should allow about 2 hours of reading/study time.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Are all those less expensive tuition institutions accredited ?? Also, in college for every hour in the classroom, you should allow about 2 hours of reading/study time.

Not to mention commuting. Not everyone lives on campus.

The degrees required by law are the ones that one has more to worry about if the school is accredited or not. For instance there is a cheaper law school, but one can only practice law within the state, move out of state and that degree isn't worth much.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

My step father has a degree in music, pretty useless degree.

I think my grandmother would have thought otherwise. English and Music degrees, taught both.

Although, I would stipulate that if any degree would satisfy the requirement and not one directly to the job, does there really need to have the requirement of the college degree? Because not really even getting through college now shows the same grit and determination that it once did and there are other ways of ascertaining that without a degree as well.


My grandfather, same side of the family, was denied a job because of no degree. Had the experience and knowledge, but no degree. They hired someone with a degree, but no experience. The person that had the position before wanted my grandfather to get it. Now probably thinking why I am mentioning this as it seems to go against what I am arguing. How long do you think it was before the there was issues with that decision? Not long at all. That hire didn't turn out as well as they had hoped.

 

[Geneva Olson]

I never said it did. I also do not agree 1 bit that college, or any form of education or learning is ever a poor choice. You cite your son but he got an education in the Navy. Money does not equate to anything in my eyes. Glad he makes more than his father but who cares? Fact is, not having a degree can hold you back even if you are 100% capable of doing the job. Ive worked for many companies where you hit a ceiling on advancement because of it. I just do not see how you can argue that college is not a good idea.

You are assuming that education is still rigorous. And it's not.