US Tariffs, Sigh!

[Geneva Olson]

I wanted to mention that I missed a lot of this tread, and I still see it is a controversy, different opinions, some good, some funny. I was away for 4 weeks.

but the point is the increase in price in the every day items we buy.

Geneva

yes, I did said that, but if they make the vinyl in the US, more likely it will cost more.

What is the reason companies make products in China?
Cheap labor in China
US company pays minimum wage, how much is it in California is little more than $18/hour, and also pays business tax, health insurance, workers com insurance, and other benefits, buy law, more likely rent of facilities, driving the price for that specific product higher than been produced overseas.

I remember about 20 years ago or so, a shoe company was in I believe El Toro, Ca, they were using a glue that California banned because it was not safe, what the company did? they moved to Philippines and continued using the same glue. it was cheaper labor and left many people in that city unemployed.

it's almost like you look for ways to fail.

we produce gasoline at a pretty cheap rate. vinyl is a petroleum based product. we produce plastic here in texas pretty cheaply.

california actually banned something because it wasn't safe? must not have been a money maker for them.

 

[ikarasu]

ok. Would you rather pay tax on what you make? or tax (tariff) on what you spend?
perhaps basic econ has been lost on you.

I would rather be taxed on my income in a tax bracket. I'm already taxed on what I spend... it's called Sales Tax. Why add a second tax?

Why would I want the rich to get a tax cut by removing income tax and the poor to make up for it via tarrifs? Lets make it even simpler.

I'm the owner of Ford motors.

I make 1,000,000 a year. US tax bracket is 37% I believe. So lets say I'm not doing any tax fuckery by keeping my money out of USA, putting it into non-taxable programs, etc... for this purpose, we'll assume It's very basic taxes. So I make 1 million a year.... and 370k of that goes to income tax.

Now trump puts on tarrifs, and abolishes taxes. So now I make 1 million a year... but I have to pay tarrifs on all this aluminum I'm importing to make my cars. Lets say the tarrifs are 25%.

I raise my vehicle prices by 25%, because I'm not going to take a loss on my sales... I have share holders who I answer to, who I legally have to increase proffits every year in every possible way I can. So I keep my 370K that would normally goto taxes.. I raise the prices of my items... You as a regular, sub-100k a year citizen gets to pay for the tarrif, while I sit back in my yacht drinking mai tais, not paying my fair share into taxes... and pushing the burden onto the consumer.

Does that seem right to you? Or fair? How do you stop it? Think Trump can tell a business they aren't allowed to increase prices due to tarrifs? Like he did to Amazon and Walmart... who have increased prices already, and warned they will be going higher due to tarrifs. Now I'm sure as a sign shop, you're going to do the same - When your aluminum price jumps up 25%, even if youre not paying income taxes...are you going to eat it? or will you raise your prices and let the consumer eat it? So we're just shuffling money, and those on the bottom of the totem pole are the ones getting screwed, while those higher up the distribution chain lets their shit flow downhill.


If he were to abolish taxes, but had the framework put in place so tarrifs didn't get passed onto regular people... then maybe, MAYBE tarrifs have a chance at being good, and I'd understand your argument. But he jumped the gun and tarrifed the world before anything was in place, so he doesn't... and even if he did, It'd likelly just be trading 1 tax for another... The US Government is 37.5 TRILLION dollars in debt. They keep raising the debt ceiling, and raising the debt ceiling.... They cant afford to collect less taxes, so unless he somehow magically makes it so Tarrifs are not a tax, and the Country thats being tarrifed is the one that pays them (Literally impossible to do...) Then he cant get rid of income tax if the money he's collecting from Tarrifs are less than they collect from income tax.

And I know, some debt isn't bad. But Americas debt is high, and if something were to shake up the economy... Say some maniac throwing tariffs on the whole world.... That debt becomes a huge problem. Even if there was a 80% chance everything goes trumps way, playing chicken with the economy isn't the smartest thing to do... not when millions of lives depend on it.

 

[Geneva Olson]

I would rather be taxed on my income in a tax bracket. I'm already taxed on what I spend... it's called Sales Tax. Why add a second tax?

Why would I want the rich to get a tax cut by removing income tax and the poor to make up for it via tarrifs? Lets make it even simpler.

I'm the owner of Ford motors.

I make 1,000,000 a year. US tax bracket is 37% I believe. So lets say I'm not doing any tax fuckery by keeping my money out of USA, putting it into non-taxable programs, etc... for this purpose, we'll assume It's very basic taxes. So I make 1 million a year.... and 370k of that goes to income tax.

Now trump puts on tarrifs, and abolishes taxes. So now I make 1 million a year... but I have to pay tarrifs on all this aluminum I'm importing to make my cars. Lets say the tarrifs are 25%.

I raise my vehicle prices by 25%, because I'm not going to take a loss on my sales... I have share holders who I answer to, who I legally have to increase proffits every year in every possible way I can. So I keep my 370K that would normally goto taxes.. I raise the prices of my items... You as a regular, sub-100k a year citizen gets to pay for the tarrif, while I sit back in my yacht drinking mai tais, not paying my fair share into taxes... and pushing the burden onto the consumer.

Does that seem right to you? Or fair? How do you stop it? Think Trump can tell a business they aren't allowed to increase prices due to tarrifs? Like he did to Amazon and Walmart... who have increased prices already, and warned they will be going higher due to tarrifs. Now I'm sure as a sign shop, you're going to do the same - When your aluminum price jumps up 25%, even if youre not paying income taxes...are you going to eat it? or will you raise your prices and let the consumer eat it? So we're just shuffling money, and those on the bottom of the totem pole are the ones getting screwed, while those higher up the distribution chain lets their shit flow downhill.


If he were to abolish taxes, but had the framework put in place so tarrifs didn't get passed onto regular people... then maybe, MAYBE tarrifs have a chance at being good, and I'd understand your argument. But he jumped the gun and tarrifed the world before anything was in place, so he doesn't... and even if he did, It'd likelly just be trading 1 tax for another... The US Government is 37.5 TRILLION dollars in debt. They keep raising the debt ceiling, and raising the debt ceiling.... They cant afford to collect less taxes, so unless he somehow magically makes it so Tarrifs are not a tax, and the Country thats being tarrifed is the one that pays them (Literally impossible to do...) Then he cant get rid of income tax if the money he's collecting from Tarrifs are less than they collect from income tax.

And I know, some debt isn't bad. But Americas debt is high, and if something were to shake up the economy... Say some maniac throwing tariffs on the whole world.... That debt becomes a huge problem. Even if there was a 80% chance everything goes trumps way, playing chicken with the economy isn't the smartest thing to do... not when millions of lives depend on it.

sales tax is for local city and state for the local governments to run.
last i checked you don't pay federal sales tax.
it looks like we here in the us produce aluminum as well. sure, its a far cry from what we used to produce, but there's nothing wrong in increasing production. If i'm buying aluminum from my wholesaler, i'm going to make sure I'm buying it from a us company and not canada. especially if it's cheaper. which, considering the tariffs we have on canada are 50%, i'll be getting it here. oh wow. that looks like my supplier is going to have to start buying more aluminum from american made factories. because whos going to buy canadian aluminum with a 50% tariff increase when we can get it cheaper from the US.


i don't know if ive ever seen people argue in favor of being over taxed as much as you have.
that whole taxation without representation thing is very real. but go ahead, keep paying "the man"

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

The tax rate is what it is. Trump won't be president in 3 years and things move on. Enjoy the weekend

 

[Gene@mpls]

Donald has 3 years [as he sees it] to be sure he will still be in the White House in 3 years.

 

[akuarela]

Not a lie. Marco Rubioyesterday, confirmed the number I quoted to you. This administration is on tv constantly telling us what's happening.

Geneva, This from the DHL site - claiming that about 1.6 M have left
Regardless, if employers need imported workers, and cannot access them within the local population, it should be less cumbersome to bring temporary or more permanent immigrants in a lawful manner, and then these people would be subject to the same rules/laws and benefits.

 

[MP Custom]

are we talking dying FROM covid, or dying WITH covid?
...because it appears the numbers have been WAYYYYY off.

did you know that people died in the Australian concentration camps? ...and it wasn't from covid.
my uncle died in the hospital during covid. admitted for a stroke, and they left him alone in a room & refused family to visit and check on him. ultimately died from septic bedsores because the nurses literally just left him lying there with minimal care and hospital marked it down as a covid death. simply rolling him onto his sides/back throughout the day would have saved his life.

Are you Australian? I am. I think you seem to be a what we call "cookers"
I have never heard such bulls*t about "concentration camps" from anyone else but cookers, and Americans.
Trump has boosted our economy no end.so thank you to all who voted for him.
Unemployment down, economy on the rise, and exports booming to every other country.
Long may he stay president.

 

[MP Custom]

sooo how's the koolaid?
...do you drink it upside-down in Australia?
howard springs is nice this time of year, i imagine

We don’t have masked men with guns being paid $1000 per head to abduct anyone who isn't pale enough.
we don't worry if our kids will be gunned down while learning at school.
We don’t get shot by the highway patrol for answering back.
I pity you Americans and your "freedom "

 

[JamesLam]

Get back on track people. WTH does firearms, Covid, and left & right, or Jan 3rd have to do with tariffs?

The trade environment we are in is dictated by those we elected and many that are in non-elected positions. This is something we have very little control over.

So focus on trade, ways and means to minimize costs and red tape, the sharing of opportunities to move goods back and forth between Canada, the US and other countries, etc.

 

[MikePro]

We don’t have masked men with guns being paid $1000 per head to abduct anyone who isn't pale enough.

cool story, race baiter.
the $1000 is a bonus for illegal immigrants to self-deport.

buuut feel free to enjoy American beef for the first time since 2003, as Australia has caved-in and lifted the ban on imports.

 

[JBurton]

Trump won't be president in 3 years and things move on.

As relieved as I am to read this, I'm afraid they'll just weekend at bernie's his ass through the next election cycle.

 

[ikarasu]

I know it's off topic. But why are US Presidents so old? Politics aside.... When you're 70 years old, you're not as sharp as you used to be. We saw Biden go from "old but ok" to it seems like he has dementia. Trump's had quite a few of those moments recently too.

Isn't retirement age 62 in USA? President's in their 50s... Early 60s, so long as they're in good health, not much wrong with that... 60 in your first term so that you're not past 70 in your second term... I feel like there should be an age limit. At that age health can turn pretty quick.

 

[MP Custom]

cool story, race baiter.
the $1000 is a bonus for illegal immigrants to self-deport.

buuut feel free to enjoy American beef for the first time since 2003, as Australia has caved-in and lifted the ban on imports.

You made me laugh out loud. McDonalds imports 44000 tonnes of Australian beef to feed you Americans. That's why your cheeseburger is more expensive. American beef can be imported yes, but we only did it so the toddler in chief could feel like he won. We have never imported any large quantities of American beef.
Especially now that your cattle industry is battling tarrifs on feed and are downsizing the herds.
Meanwhile, I'll enjoy my hormone free steaks and world class meat.

 

[GAC05]

As relieved as I am to read this, I'm afraid they'll just weekend at bernie's his ass through the next election cycle.

Didn't work out too well for the last guys who tried this.

 

[victor bogdanov]

I know it's off topic. But why are US Presidents so old? Politics aside.... When you're 70 years old, you're not as sharp as you used to be. We saw Biden go from "old but ok" to it seems like he has dementia. Trump's had quite a few of those moments recently too.

Isn't retirement age 62 in USA? President's in their 50s... Early 60s, so long as they're in good health, not much wrong with that... 60 in your first term so that you're not past 70 in your second term... I feel like there should be an age limit. At that age health can turn pretty quick.

This should tell you something:

"
Mandatory Retirement Ages:
.
A majority of companies, particularly in the S&P 500,, have mandatory retirement age policies for their board members, with the age often set at 72
"

The average age for an S&P 500 CEO varies by source and the specific year of the study, but recent reports place it around 57-58 years old for the overall cohort and around 56-57 years old for newly appointed CEOs.


Way past prime when pushing 80s no matter who you are.


You need a critical/complicated surgery, do you feel more confident in a 50 year old surgeon or 82 year old surgeon doing your surgery?

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

This should tell you something:

"
Mandatory Retirement Ages:
.
A majority of companies, particularly in the S&P 500,, have mandatory retirement age policies for their board members, with the age often set at 72
"

The average age for an S&P 500 CEO varies by source and the specific year of the study, but recent reports place it around 57-58 years old for the overall cohort and around 56-57 years old for newly appointed CEOs.


Way past prime when pushing 80s no matter who you are.


You need a critical/complicated surgery, do you feel more confident in a 50 year old surgeon or 82 year old surgeon doing your surgery?

We've witnessed plenty of people fall off a cliff mid-80s posting on this site................

 

[MikePro]

You made me laugh out loud. McDonalds imports 44000 tonnes of Australian beef to feed you Americans. That's why your cheeseburger is more expensive. American beef can be imported yes, but we only did it so the toddler in chief could feel like he won. We have never imported any large quantities of American beef.
Especially now that your cattle industry is battling tarrifs on feed and are downsizing the herds.
Meanwhile, I'll enjoy my hormone free steaks and world class meat.

apparently free trade is great, when its a one-way street.

 

[JBurton]

Didn't work out too well for the last guys who tried this.

You mean 3rd term or weekend at bernies?
They jumped ship on bidens 2nd term, and he managed to win his first.
FDR managed a 3rd term, fairly successfully.
Trump is already at bernies, between not remembering authorizing a special operation, and not remembering drawing this creepy piece ofart:

 

[Geneva Olson]

Geneva, This from the DHL site - claiming that about 1.6 M have left
Regardless, if employers need imported workers, and cannot access them within the local population, it should be less cumbersome to bring temporary or more permanent immigrants in a lawful manner, and then these people would be subject to the same rules/laws and benefits.

I'm sorry. I'm not understanding what you are saying. We HAVE a lawful way for immigrants to come to the country.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I'm sorry. I'm not understanding what you are saying. We HAVE a lawful way for immigrants to come to the country.

Problem is not enough lawful ways. If the US only granted 10 people to enter the county a year, is the argument that we HAVE a lawful way still in reality true? If I so happen to be born in some third world country and my only hope of surviving a better life was to somehow make it to another country, I'd probably do the same if I couldn't obtain it a legal way. I'm not saying we allow all in, but the limits do generate this problem. Most of the South Koreans couldn't get a specific H-1B visa because they have a limit on how many each country gets.. so they skirted the law and got them HB visa (or something?) which didn't allow them to work but to supervise. Any they knew it but were relying on our government to look the other way as they have in the past. We're not producing enough children to sustain our population, so bringing in immigrants is the only thing keeping us from turning into a stagnant economy.