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what a customer think they need vs. what is most effective.
- Thread starter Pete Moss
- Start date
Jon Aston
New Member
I think the key is to reframe the discussion... by learning more about what their business/marketing objectives are, who their target customers are (demographically, psychographically), and how best to connect with them through signage.
Your customer may have a soft spot for Olde English type, red on black (or whatever) but the question is: How is giving them what they like going to help them attract customers and sell more products or services? By contrast, how will what you're proposing help them do that?
Your customer may have a soft spot for Olde English type, red on black (or whatever) but the question is: How is giving them what they like going to help them attract customers and sell more products or services? By contrast, how will what you're proposing help them do that?
GypsyGraphics
New Member
I hope this thread gets a lot of posts, i'd love to hear how others handle this!
I'm trying to decide right now, if i should tell a client to go elsewhere with their horrid logo. They say they want a clean, simple, high end looking business card and they have this cartoony, clip-art, miss-moss logo with a really bad font. Truly one of the worst i ever seen. I like to think i can work magic and give them what they want... but i'm just not that good.
In the past when i've done inferior work because the client demanded it, i've regretted it. At some point you have to decide if, putting poor work out and just taking the check, is worth having your name associated with that level of professionalism.
I can usually talk clients into letting me do my job. But i'm not the right choice for a client who wants designer who just does as they're told.
I'm trying to decide right now, if i should tell a client to go elsewhere with their horrid logo. They say they want a clean, simple, high end looking business card and they have this cartoony, clip-art, miss-moss logo with a really bad font. Truly one of the worst i ever seen. I like to think i can work magic and give them what they want... but i'm just not that good.
In the past when i've done inferior work because the client demanded it, i've regretted it. At some point you have to decide if, putting poor work out and just taking the check, is worth having your name associated with that level of professionalism.
I can usually talk clients into letting me do my job. But i'm not the right choice for a client who wants designer who just does as they're told.
SebastienL
New Member
There's an old phrase that goes "the customer is allways right". I freaking hate that phrase, but it is true.
You can try an convince him on having a sign, a wrap, a bussiness card done in good taste, sometimes it will work and they'll listen to you. But if he is hellbent on the Serpentine/Rapier combo with a hammer for is logo 'cause he has a construction company and he likes the Serpentine/Rapier combo and a hammer makes it clear that he is a contractor. (Ok he wont call out fonts like that, but you know, like the sign on the garage on the corner of so and so). Then Serpentine/Rapier it will be, with a hammer.
Maybe it's not something you will put in your portfolio, or even tell your girlfriend you "designed" that when you drive by, but if the customer is happy, he will tell others that you did it, that you did a good job, and that they had a good service.
If you try to impose your good taste upon him, and make a better looking sign, wrap... he might not be as happy and trash you.
Just my opinion on the matter...
You can try an convince him on having a sign, a wrap, a bussiness card done in good taste, sometimes it will work and they'll listen to you. But if he is hellbent on the Serpentine/Rapier combo with a hammer for is logo 'cause he has a construction company and he likes the Serpentine/Rapier combo and a hammer makes it clear that he is a contractor. (Ok he wont call out fonts like that, but you know, like the sign on the garage on the corner of so and so). Then Serpentine/Rapier it will be, with a hammer.
Maybe it's not something you will put in your portfolio, or even tell your girlfriend you "designed" that when you drive by, but if the customer is happy, he will tell others that you did it, that you did a good job, and that they had a good service.
If you try to impose your good taste upon him, and make a better looking sign, wrap... he might not be as happy and trash you.
Just my opinion on the matter...
SebastienL
New Member
'cause, you know, sometimes you have to deal with people who can't even tie their own boots...
Jon Aston
New Member
Gypsy and Sebastien L...
I think the answer(s) to the questions you are raising depend on how mature your business is, and (with no disrespect to anyone), how mature you are as a business person.
When your business is young, and possibly struggling, you're naturally going to be more inclined to take whatever work comes your way... because you need to, or believe you need to. That mindset can get well entrenched. And it can hold you back.
When you reach the point at which you realize don't need every customer and every job, you can focus on attracting customers with good "fit", and with a greater lifetime value for your business... with customers who are growing, profitable, and who provide you with qualified referrals, from within their respective networks.
I think the answer(s) to the questions you are raising depend on how mature your business is, and (with no disrespect to anyone), how mature you are as a business person.
When your business is young, and possibly struggling, you're naturally going to be more inclined to take whatever work comes your way... because you need to, or believe you need to. That mindset can get well entrenched. And it can hold you back.
When you reach the point at which you realize don't need every customer and every job, you can focus on attracting customers with good "fit", and with a greater lifetime value for your business... with customers who are growing, profitable, and who provide you with qualified referrals, from within their respective networks.
SebastienL
New Member
Jon, you make a good point...
Some customer have a more open mind and will go to a "design house" to get their corporate look done right. But this is not a pure "Design" forum, it is a sign making forum. And as a sign maker, wraper... I don't really care where the design come from, wheter it be a well establish design house or my customer's nephew...
One of my friend father told me when I was young: "To work is to prostitute yourself". Didn't make much sense in my young idealist mind, but 20 years later, it seems to make more sense.
We have turned down jobs before, but unfortunately, sometimes you do have to pay the bills.
Some customer have a more open mind and will go to a "design house" to get their corporate look done right. But this is not a pure "Design" forum, it is a sign making forum. And as a sign maker, wraper... I don't really care where the design come from, wheter it be a well establish design house or my customer's nephew...
One of my friend father told me when I was young: "To work is to prostitute yourself". Didn't make much sense in my young idealist mind, but 20 years later, it seems to make more sense.
We have turned down jobs before, but unfortunately, sometimes you do have to pay the bills.
SignManiac
New Member
I do it often. I have no problem turning down any job that does not meet my high standards. It's my reputation, not theirs, that's on the line.
Mosh
New Member
If I like the customer I try and help them out with giving them what they
need. If I don't like them I give them what they ask for and let them go on their way.
I used to try and help all of my customers out, it only gave me gray hairs. That is when I was starting out
and cared about making a rep for myself. Now I don't really care that much.
need. If I don't like them I give them what they ask for and let them go on their way.
I used to try and help all of my customers out, it only gave me gray hairs. That is when I was starting out
and cared about making a rep for myself. Now I don't really care that much.
SebastienL
New Member
I don't agree with this statement. It is the client's reputation that is in play. you and I see bad design every day. We don't know who design or made the sign/wrap. We only know it makes us not want to do business with that enterprise.
The way I usually work something like this is by providing my client with my interpretation of what they need. If the logo needs some work, I do it based on how it should fit the layout and a proper look for positive advertising. If the client decides that I strayed from what they wanted and insist on the original logo or art, well, I give them what they want, as best as it may look, get my money and move on.
As stated in previous posts, if the client is happy with the end result, they will give good referrals to others. Either way you end up doing what the clients wants, if you guide them in the right direction and like what you show they end up wanting what you it if they don't then they want their original stuff. It can mean a bit of extra work, but it gives me piece of mind that at least I tried to get them in the right direction.
Then again...what do I know about right direction..lol
jc
As stated in previous posts, if the client is happy with the end result, they will give good referrals to others. Either way you end up doing what the clients wants, if you guide them in the right direction and like what you show they end up wanting what you it if they don't then they want their original stuff. It can mean a bit of extra work, but it gives me piece of mind that at least I tried to get them in the right direction.
Then again...what do I know about right direction..lol
jc
Techman
New Member
The solution is to find your own specialty. Build your marketing plan around your business plan. Fill that niche with a great product. Advertise to that market and let all others self disqualify themselves.
If you are trying to do every thing and all things you will put up with the commodity market. If you build up your special area then you can dictate the prices.
Personally, I rarely cut vinyl anymore. I almost never hear " i can get it cheaper down the road". I work less but make more. And that is what it takes to be happy in business.
If you are trying to do every thing and all things you will put up with the commodity market. If you build up your special area then you can dictate the prices.
Personally, I rarely cut vinyl anymore. I almost never hear " i can get it cheaper down the road". I work less but make more. And that is what it takes to be happy in business.
visual800
Active Member
I try and sway a customer to get a look that will compliment them for years after IF they are persistent I do their stuff and it doesn't go in the portfolio. im pretty brazen when it comes to telling people their ideas suck or their layout is horrid.
I do this for a living and they do not and they need to trust us to make them look professional. identification is one of the most important aspects of a business. it looks good on cards, letterhead and signage. When someone hands me a crappy logo I have just lost a lot of respect for them
I do this for a living and they do not and they need to trust us to make them look professional. identification is one of the most important aspects of a business. it looks good on cards, letterhead and signage. When someone hands me a crappy logo I have just lost a lot of respect for them
SebastienL
New Member
... And, of course, there are those who don't need, want or care about professional lookin' logo, sign or fancy layout for their full page, 4 color add in the local newspaper...
(I drive by this place every day, it practically in the middle of nowhere. But still, it doing pretty well.)
(I drive by this place every day, it practically in the middle of nowhere. But still, it doing pretty well.)
Attachments
This is good advice. Although my business is relatively new, I've been in the industry a long time. Sometimes it's painful to do so, but those PITA/tire kickers/low ballers/don't care what it looks like customers are often not worth the hassle in a lot of cases. And besides, do you want to live in an area/city where every sign and graphic is a horrible POS? Reach for the higher standard. In the long run, I feel that cultivating and educating good prospects will be worth the effort.
As for those that feel they are not great designers, there are a number of people on this forum that offer great design as a subcontracted service.
Terry
Craig Sjoquist
New Member
I try to lead my customers with common sense ways and means and show them with drawing or pictures as I do, with what may work better with certain guide lines used in design, flow and balance.
Also what has worked in the past for other customers, be right or wrong design ideas.
If the customer is way off on some type of design guide line I'm open for changes and do the best I can with restrictions.
Also what has worked in the past for other customers, be right or wrong design ideas.
If the customer is way off on some type of design guide line I'm open for changes and do the best I can with restrictions.