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What would you do in this situation?

p3

New Member
Just wondering what you guys do when you have a customer that asks for some stuff done and after making a mock up of banner and a few other things, the customer complained about pricing then took my artwork to another shop and had it printed. Is it even worth going after or just count my losses and move on?
 

p3

New Member
Yea, I do that on all my stuff now, I got caught up in some last minute stuff with this guy and didn't do it, and just emailed him and now its bittin me and just was wonderin if there was anything I could do, just cause some time was spent on all his stuff.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Threaten him with using copyrighted material without your signing off on it and see if it scares him. If not... don't ever do it again.

You can probably find dozens of threads if you researched it a little around this place. Everyone gets caught up in it and the best solution is to not let it happen again....... and learn from your mistakes.
 

luggnut

New Member
this has probably happened to everyone in this biz at some point, you just have to learn from it.

get a deposit before they get a proof. sounds tough. but if they are serious about doing the job and you are a decent salesman you can get them to understand your time will be already invested when you do a proof, so if they don't do the job and you do the proof you are out that money. i myself struggle with this sometimes because of my lack of salesman skills, but if the layout is gonna take some time to do i have to get a deposit.

also make sure they at least have an estimated price so they won't have sticker shock after you have already worked up the proof.
 

gbahue

New Member
Bad customer. Raise their prices. Half will still do busines with you even after you jack them.
 

jiarby

New Member
Send them a bill for the design time, saying that you are glad they liked the layout. He may never pay, he may never call you ever again, but... maybe he'll just automatically pay it!
 

Dave Drane

New Member
Ditto to all of above... Put it down to experience and don't trust ANYONE!! I took my printer out of my office just so when they say "Can you print that so I can show my wife" I can say with all honesty that I don't have a printer. As for the email bit you just have to say when the job is secured the emails will be sent at a extra cost, or no charge if they come to you and see it on the screen.
 

ndemond

New Member
Send them a bill for the design time, saying that you are glad they liked the layout. He may never pay, he may never call you ever again, but... maybe he'll just automatically pay it!

+1
Also I would contact the offending sign company that used your design. Tell him his practice of using your design is unethical, if it happens again you will send him a bill also.

Nancy
 

signage

New Member
Send them a bill for the design time, saying that you are glad they liked the layout. He may never pay, he may never call you ever again, but... maybe he'll just automatically pay it!

+1 +1 and also agree with Nancy! An email is proof that you designed it! And this will make sure you don't do it again!
 

Jillbeans

New Member
#1 never design without a deposit.
#2 send the "client" a bill for design, and like Nancy said, call the other shop.
Maybe they don't know that it is not cool to do this.
Maybe the customer didn't realize it either.
You may never get paid, but I did once.
I also know a guy who had this same thing happen, who took pix, and took his emails/sketches to the district judge after he'd filed for a hearing.
And he did collect the entire price of the job.
Love....Jill
 

Jack Knight1979

New Member
I had a job a few years ago to wrap the interior of an arena.

I laid the whole job out and had everything ready to go. It was about an 8k job, too.

The guy took my watermarked work to another shop and had them done there for something like 5% less.

That was a kick in the boys. I sent him a bill for the design work.
 

encadtech

New Member
This is a tough lesson that I have learned over time. The solution is - my time is worth money. The answer is customer expectation. When I get a new customer in - they receive a written quote stating the cost of the job. The 3 things we should all be getting paid for is - 1. materials - 2. design - 3. installation. Before I give them anything other than a quote - I get money. If the job is less than $100.00 - payment in full - if over $100.00 50% down. No money no work. I don't ask the tradesman that walks through the door to work for free - Why should I? As far as sending out invoices and tracking down copyright infringements - how much justice can you afford? I have found that qualifiying the customer up front and getting the deposit makes for a much better transaction and a happier customer. If the customer doesn't want to put down a deposit - they are either just kickin tires or are looking for free advice/work.
 

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
Every time this situation comes around on the big forum wheel it's always entertaining to read the contributions of those who seem to be running on speculation.

Been there, done that, and here's what you do. You file suit against the client in whatever passes for your local small claims court for the full cost of the sign less all materials. In other words, the real fee for the design plus a bit. You take no action against the other sign outfit, they are not culpable.

Print off screen shots showing the contents and creation/modification dates of the pertinent files.

Print a copy of at least the salient articles of the Berne convention which grants you copyright to your original work merely by virtue of the fact that it exists. No notices or warnings required, just existence is sufficient.

This is and your brief truthful story is all you'll need. When I say brief, I mean just that. No emotion, no convoluted reasoning, just the facts, your exhibits, and your statement that the Berne convention applies in this case.

If you actually end up in court you have pretty much a slam dunk. You will be awarded your design fee, the court filing fee, and whatever fee to serve the papers on the client. Do not do the service yourself, hire the local sheriff's department. This is what they do.

If, after you have a judgment against the client, he refuses to pay up then go to the same sheriff's department and do whatever it takes in your village to put a mechanics lien on any and all of the client's assets. Including a chain on his door. Essentially, you put him out of business until he pays the judgment.

It's time consuming and a pain in the ass but it works and serves as a warning to others that you are not about to be screwed with.
 

Checkers

New Member
You take no action against the other sign outfit, they are not culpable.
I disagree Bob. The company reproducing the copyrighted material is responsible, to a degree, too.

Remember, even if you don't make money or profit on a job where copyrighted material is used without authorization from the owner of the design, it is copyright infringement.

As professionals, we are supposed to be knowledgeable of all aspects of this business and we can (and should be) held to a higher standard than the general public.

While we can disclaim and/or assign some of that responsibility through a written contract, it is ultimately our responsibility to insure that we are not impeding on another designers rights or breaking the law.

Checkers
 

fisheye48

New Member
not to derail, but what do you do when somebody brings you artwork with no watermark or any kind of mark identifying it to the designer and wants you to print or cut it but another shop did it??
 

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
I disagree Bob. The company reproducing the copyrighted material is responsible, to a degree, too....

Maybe but it would be some sort of subjective moral responsibility and far beyond the capabilities of enforcement by plain vanilla citizens. If this is included all it will do is cloud the issue and make the whole thing more difficult. Leave it be and go for the throat.
 
if said banner or sign is on a nice country road and the guy that took your design laughed and said he would never pay you...you have your fellow sign friend drive the truck while you take aim with your 12gauge loaded with fletchettes...now of course this is only hypothetical and only fun to think about and of course we only used bird shot.
 
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