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Fired a customer

gnubler

Active Member
My first one, as a business owner.

Started with a phone call last April, new business wanting letters installed on their building. They sent an example image of a sign they like, supplied a font and letter height. Building is two blocks away so I checked it out after work, looked like an easy job. Sent a ballpark quote the next day along with some information on the order process, customer replied favorably.

A week passed with several emails back and forth, and I decide to put together a quick mockup of the letters on the building. Normally I don’t do proofs on speculation, but it was a quick five minute thing that I hoped would lead to getting the job. This turned out to be a huge mistake, as it spawned a string of requests for changes on the proof, and after a couple days of this I said I had hit a limit, and that to continue the process they would need to place an order with a 50% deposit. A few more emails were exchanged, then the customer suddenly went silent. I was okay with this, and didn’t follow up.

Two weeks later, they’re back. They love the last design and want to put an order in. I revised the quote, it was approved, and I received a check for half down later that week. I send off a final proof for approval so I can start the permit paperwork…comes back with “can we see it with the letters two inches taller?” Okay. I remind them that new changes would affect the quoted price. Then there was a font change, more adjustments to letter heights, another font change. Before this all started I asked if they had a logo or any branding in place - they did not, and weren’t interested in having me design one. I’m mildly annoyed, as I had now run the numbers several times, and met with my contractor to survey the install site…ample time and energy had been invested. By now, the cost of the signage had increased by around $500, and I had hit my quoted time limit for design/changes. This led to a lengthy, and final, phone call with the customer.

She’s disappointed because she says she can sign into her online printer and make a million little changes to her designs, and is confused that I’ve hit a limit on design when she was expecting MORE. Keep in mind I’ve already fulfilled all of their requests, we’re on proof #8, the email thread has hit 50 emails spanning six weeks now…I’m thinking ‘jeeeezus effing…” I explain I can only devote so much time for each job, I don’t have an online designer and most sign shops don’t, and if she wants further design changes then I bill by the hour. At the mention of money she then says that their budget is now around $500 less than the approved quote (the one they paid a deposit on). Yeah…No. She wants me to “bring my software” to her place so we can play around with designs. No. She wants to come to my shop and sit beside me to make nudges until it looks right. No. Grand opening is in three weeks, will the sign be done? No.

I got lost on this one. What should have been one of the easiest jobs to get done, with virtually no designing really needed, turned into a dead end. I canceled their order and am refunding the deposit. Can’t wait to see what type of sign ends up on that building, and when.

Who else has fired a customer, and why?
 

netsol

Premium Subscriber
You did the right thing. Cut your losses
In the late 1970's a GOOD Client, with a crazy wife built a new house.
We did some wiring and provided electronics, an alarm, tv's vcr's etc
My deal went fine...

They drove the mason crazy as well as the general contractor
20 revisions, finally approved the plan. BUILT, ALL DONE...
6 months later, they have not moved in, she calls the mason "lets see how if looks if we remove 2 rows of brick,
The chimney looks stupid". He comes out and chips away, refinished the chimney. A week later, "lets put one row back"

This went on for YEARS, the township sued the owner, he didn't move into the house for 7 years, and wanted to pay taxes on a vacant lot "because we are not finished & ready to move in"

Some clients are just impossible
 

gnubler

Active Member
The customer's building is undergoing a refurb inside and out. Painting, fixtures, etc. I pity the contractors working on it and wonder if/when there will be a mass walkout. I'm guessing she's already run over budget with them, so tried to cut costs with the stupid sign company. Byeee...
 

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
I bet it feels good getting that client off your plate. I've only fired a handful of people.. and refunded once or twice, but when I did it was a good decision. I've fired for very similar situation. I get a deposit and starting working on the design and it goes on forever until I decide this aint worth it and even if I get to the end, I already know they are undecisive and picky and they will find something wrong with the end result.
 

gnubler

Active Member
She would have had holes all over the place.
Some may see that as a good thing.

The firing was yesterday, and a couple hours later FedEx delivered some letters from Gemini for another job. In half the interim of this nutjob endlessly dicking around with letter sizes, I quoted, proofed, produced, and delivered similar letters for another customer. It's almost like she didn't want a sign made, ever.

I weep for the shop that ends up with her.
 

CanuckSigns

Active Member
Yeah I hear ya, it's tricky, 95% of our clients are great to work with, but that 5% can really kick your ass, and you can never tell until you are already invested in the project.

I had a client a few years ago, call me wanting a polished bronze plaque, they were an interior designer and they wanted a 16"x 96" polished bronze plaque for their clients house, with the address spelled out to go above their garage, quoted them high because they seemed like a PITA, it was a.$16,000 address plaque, they approved it and send 50%, when I sent the proofs they had a ton of changes which I anticipated, but then they called demanding their money back out of the blue saying I didn't know what I was doing. Turns out the home-owner was away on a cruise when the designer ordered the plaque and they rightfully came home and were furious the designer would spend that much money on a address plaque without their approval. I told them I would refund all of their deposit except the time spent on designing proofs and emailing back and fourth, she lady well full ballistic, threatened to sue me rhe whole 9 yards. I ended up refunding her the full amount just to not have to deal with her ever again, and it felt like a weight was lifted from my shoulders.
 

WhiskeyDreamer

Professional Snow Ninja
so i don't know if this is something that could help you in the future, but i include a line under the sign description in my estimates that says "includes initial proof and up to two revisions" ...if i feel the client is going to be a pita, then they only get one revision.

all proofs after that have a line in the email stating there will be additional design fees added to the invoice.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Your admitted first mistake is the most healthiest part of this whole scenario, so learn from it. In addition, you should warn these people before they get too far into it, this is all gonna start costing them. That could possibly eliminate these kindsa people next time.

All the other stuff she can do here or there has nothing to do with you, her and your contract, so it's pure poppycock.

The funny part is, just yesterday, I fired about the first person ever in my entire career. However, mine started in November of 2020. She was never available to discuss anything after our initial meeting at her place. It took about 4 or 5 months, until she sent in a deposit. After that, I was ready to rock'n roll. Then she went off the grid for about 4 months. When she surfaced, she didn't make any sense and had turned down just about all of the proofs. She eventually went back to the original sign and said she wanted to expand on it. Huh ?? She wanted to change her logo and image all together in the beginning. Oh well, then she went off the grid again. Then my wife fell ill and I was dealing with that and all of our customers were totally understanding for some of the delays. Not her. She started demanding I drop everything and get there, now..... this instant. I didn't budge. She then started demanding her money back and I just sent her a bill.... yesterday, for what we spent up til this time, my time involved with every bit of time consumed by this witch. I'm sure I'm gonna get a letter from some attorney in the next week or two. I have all the e-mails, proofs and files to prove my time and invoices for materials spent for her project. Bring it on. I need more excitememnt in my life.

So, yeah..... it was time t dump her..... or shoot her.
 

Scotchbrite

No comment
This reminds me of a Ted Talk. The problem is there are too many options/choices these days.

 

gnubler

Active Member
When she said she can sign into her online printer and make "a million little changes "
THAT was the tip off!!
Run like crazy!!
Yeah, pretty much. This was over the phone, and the moment she said that I knew I was dealing with crazy. It went downhill from there.

Absolutely agree with the "too many choices" problem in modern life. If I were in charge, all menus would look like this:

EnVb3U-XMAIaCIc.jpg
 

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
This reminds me of a Ted Talk. The problem is there are too many options/choices these days.


Does it talk about the paradox of choice?

From what I learned is that it's easier for a consumer to make a choice between a limited number of options. Like if you have a grocery store and stock 3 different kinds of ketchup, it's not hard for someone to make the choice. But if you have 10 different ketchups (different brands and sizes) it becomes overwhelming and the consumer might give up trying to figure out what he/she wants and not buy it at all.
 

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
At a restaurant, I'd rather have a hard time choosing because there are so many things that look good vs the places that only have a few things and none of them look good.
 

Stacey K

I like making signs
This reminds me of a Ted Talk. The problem is there are too many options/choices these days.

That was interesting, never heard of this guy before.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
What could you get for 2 dollars or 3 fifty ?? I want food, not a stick of gum. I still have teeth, so I wanna bite down on something and chew it up and as ol' Frankie Baby said, spit it out.
 

Stacey K

I like making signs
This choice thing reminds me of my favorite lady, Marie Kondo. I've read all her books on "tidying up" and "decluttering", and they work. I hardly have any belongings anymore lol. My favorite part is the work clothes. I wear the exact same outfit every day (I have 5 of the same outfit) and it creates ZERO choices for the morning. Although, I'm probably very boring to look at day after day LOL
 
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