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How to become a designer without going to school...

BobM

BobM

New Member
I didn't go to design school. I've read and re-read all the books. All very helpful. I know what is good and what is a bad design (IMHO). The best lesson I have learned, when I want an outstanding design, I use "my design team", :thumb: JILLBEANS :thumb: When I see the :design: coming, Jill is my get out of jail free card.
 
7

7oaks

New Member
You can be taught to draw. Now, granted, you will never be a renowned artist but I took an art class and realized that you can learn to draw with the right
teacher.

Ken

I second the back up Jill design team
 
TyrantDesigner

TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
You know, there is a part of me that reads that and says 'Damn right! Who needs college for this stuff ...' but the other part wonders 'Is he the rule, or the exception?' I can only relate this to my own path into the graphic arts.

I went from starting the computer art class in my highschool with a heavy emphasis in 3d digital modeling, digital painting and photo manipulation / reworking to getting into about 16 art schools with a couple of the bigger ones offering me half scholarships (rhode island, savanna, SVA in NY, etc) for computer art degrees. I couldn't afford (before OR after) the $40-100k it would cost so went to community college and state university instead ... got out of college with a strong education in printmaking, ceramics and sculpture because in that time I watched software start to do the hard things for people (thank you photoshop, zbrush, corel painter, etc) and watched design firms, companies that were heavily into 3d arts and just about any creative company with people on software ... drop about half to three quarters their staff. All the while, watching schools start pumping out more and more kids with computer art degrees that barely know how to use software and that is it that still floods the job market today. I mean damned if I don't see some of the more ****ty art portfolios popping out of 'graphic design' majors today than 10 years ago.

My path took me farther and farther away from graphic design, 3d design, computer modeling, etc etc etc, in college cause I didn't want to learn stuff that was getting easier and less respected in the eyes of industries (unless you were the top 3 percent).. and learned things that became my passion in life. Though I ended up in a graphic design / illustration seat for my career ... I wouldn't trade my education for just getting a job even though I'm completely self taught. I even got into sign industry just to LEARN what I now fix for other people ... because damned if I couldn't figure out why one shop had one type of setup for jobs needed, one needed another and another shop needed something completely different even though they all on the outside seemed to do the same damn thing.

I mean hell ... if I could drop graphic design completely (again) and just concentrate on Illustration, murals and fine art again ... I would be happy ... but only time will tell on that one.

And damned if I don't know people who NEED to go to school for this (sometimes AGAIN) because they suck so much at design and don't improve on their own.
 
Rick

Rick

Certified Enneadecagon Designer
Schools have a great advantage:
One is being around other creatives...
The critiques by professors and peers...
Being immersed in the creative process before being hammered into subjection by the real world gives the person space and time to learn the mechanics of design before muggles try to reinterpret it for them...

People can be taught to draw, just like people can be taught to hand letter... just takes discipline and practice. Like was said before, you may not become a great artist, but you can develop marketable/employable skills. Design and art can require talent to be great, but they are still based on principles that can be taught.

This thread may not be for some sign shops here... most sign shops are replicators. They need decent layout skills, they need to develop some design skills so I believe it's worth the effort.

I started school (Art Center) on the late 70's, dropped out. Mostly because I was immature... (could not take the class crits, teachers bored me, lacked discipline)
Tried again in the early 80's, had already done quit a bit of work and was bored because I already developed a lot of my skills... I personally think it was a huge mistake to have dropped out. I was mentored by some patient (and not so patient) designers.

Having been on sign sites for some 15 years, I have seen many of my fellow sign designers stay where they are at. I think stating "I'm always learning" and then not developing a better eye/skills is fake humility. It's hard to change, it's hard to learn... I'm a good example of it. when my pre computer skills were no longer of value, I hesitated in making the change and found myself unemployable. I had to re-educate myself. I still have too.

The other thing I see is that some designers think they are good enough with their poor design skills or their poor design skills still sell signs... they may know the software... but have no clue on layout or design. Well, I can design a crappy sign just as well as a good sign design... that can't be said for a sign designer with poor skills... Who has more potential for making money?

Right now, my main source of income is not sign design, but technical drawings, drafting and specifications for signage. I'm a decent designer and have enough skills to do that full time, but the lure of making mindless drawings for people who never read them for the same price as I charge for design is too easy to pass up. I'm re-educating myself (again)... I have a list of books and sites I should post for my re-education but for right now, wanted to see what people thought of this.
 
artbot

artbot

New Member
i was the creative director (self taught) over two design grads ($100,000 in education each). it started off a bit contentious with them doing the "that's not how to do it" routine. in the end, i'd converted them to my layout and design style in photoshop. i feel school was a detriment to them truly knowing design. everything was canned and they were bound by rules rules rules. the company folded before it ever begain (long story in a thread not yet started). last time i swung by to cover some legal issues with my former partners, they both had my work (a former design by me) one one monitor, and the new creative director was having them design new work to match my style using different elements. odd timing. very odd. but they were still busted none the less. great guys but still learning how to get it right.
 
John Butto

John Butto

New Member
Rick said:
Schools have a great advantage:
One is being around other creatives...
The critiques by professors and peers...
Being immersed in the creative process before being hammered into subjection by the real world gives the person space and time to learn the mechanics of design before muggles try to reinterpret it for them...

People can be taught to draw, just like people can be taught to hand letter... just takes discipline and practice. Like was said before, you may not become a great artist, but you can develop marketable/employable skills. Design and art can require talent to be great, but they are still based on principles that can be taught.

This thread may not be for some sign shops here... most sign shops are replicators. They need decent layout skills, they need to develop some design skills so I believe it's worth the effort.

I started school (Art Center) on the late 70's, dropped out. Mostly because I was immature... (could not take the class crits, teachers bored me, lacked discipline)
Tried again in the early 80's, had already done quit a bit of work and was bored because I already developed a lot of my skills... I personally think it was a huge mistake to have dropped out. I was mentored by some patient (and not so patient) designers.

Having been on sign sites for some 15 years, I have seen many of my fellow sign designers stay where they are at. I think stating "I'm always learning" and then not developing a better eye/skills is fake humility. It's hard to change, it's hard to learn... I'm a good example of it. when my pre computer skills were no longer of value, I hesitated in making the change and found myself unemployable. I had to re-educate myself. I still have too.

The other thing I see is that some designers think they are good enough with their poor design skills or their poor design skills still sell signs... they may know the software... but have no clue on layout or design. Well, I can design a crappy sign just as well as a good sign design... that can't be said for a sign designer with poor skills... Who has more potential for making money?

Right now, my main source of income is not sign design, but technical drawings, drafting and specifications for signage. I'm a decent designer and have enough skills to do that full time, but the lure of making mindless drawings for people who never read them for the same price as I charge for design is too easy to pass up. I'm re-educating myself (again)... I have a list of books and sites I should post for my re-education but for right now, wanted to see what people thought of this.
Click to expand...
Enjoyed reading this. Great information on a personal level.
 
Jillbeans

Jillbeans

New Member
Thanks Bob.
:loveya:
I started out as an artist, By the time I was in Kindergarten I realized that it was something I just knew how to do. By first grade, and every grade thereafter, I won awards for my drawings and even a scholarship to a weekly art class. Which I hated, because there were "rules" and we all had to replicate the same stupid picture, which even at the age of 9 I realized was not very creative.

Fast forward through middle and high school, I took every art class the schools offered, won more awards, started mural painting etc never took a typing class because I wanted to be a famous artist.
:rolleyes:

My dad decided that I should go to the Art Institute because it was a lot less money than Carnegie Mellon, which is where I wanted to go to school. I got straight As through both of the two quarters I took, learning to hand letter and do layouts. All of those classes, in fact that entire course, is now obsolete. I quit because it p!ssed me off that even very mediocre students were pushed through simply because they had the money to pay for class, and there was even one girl who was paid (by welfare maybe?) to go to school and mostly just got high every day.

I got married when I was 19 and had my children young, and was too busy for much artwork. My cousin wanted something painted in his convenience store (I hated to paint, I liked to draw for literally hours with an Ebony pencil or a Rapidograph) but I did it for extra money and that somehow led to me painting signs.

While I knew the rules of typography from art school (the ones I always say here like never use all-caps in a display typeface etc) I was not a sign designer at all and my signs looked like crap. But I met Mike Meyer through an article in SignCraft, which led me to the Letterheads, the Mike Stevens book, and gradually better-looking signs.

I read a lot of books, painted a lot of bad looking but long lasting signs and eventually got better at it. I got a plotter in 1998 and started making vinyl signs too, stretching type to fit because I could until one day I was like "Whoa! This is WRONG" and then I discovered kerning...
:Big Laugh

Over the years I got to know some good designers, like Arthur Vanson, Stevo, Jeff Lang, Bob Stevens, WeaselBoogie, Karen Souza, Bruce Bowers, David Butler, Rick, Neato, Joe Diaz, Jason Nale, etc and learned to emulate them. Between that and painting I eventually developed my own style. I learned to use Corel and that became a huge aid in helping me "see" stuff rather than continually goofing around with thumbnail sketches.

So I have taught myself to become a better designer on my own. The things I've learned from my peers, over the past 28 years, have helped me more than anything I leaned in school. I don't know what I am anymore, but I do love to do layout work. I still don't know color management and will probably never learn it, as I design in black and white and if it needs printing I sub it out, or just paint the damn thing.

Love....Jill
 
visual800

visual800

Active Member
Rick said:
People can be taught to draw, just like people can be taught to hand letter... just takes discipline and practice. Like was said before, you may not become a great artist, but you can develop marketable/employable skills. Design and art can require talent to be great, but they are still based on principles that can be taught..
Click to expand...

if you are not out of the womb with art talents you cannot be taught to draw. Maybe its my opinion but I stand firm. Drawing is a passion that is within not something that you wake up in your 20s and 30s and just happen upon.

You will learn from others in your feild than someone in a classroom.
 
John Butto

John Butto

New Member
Thanks again for the thread Rick, you also got JillBeans to do a rough draft of her obituary. If that is the final it is going to cost one of her kin some bucks. They do charge by the word.
My favorite designer is Karl Lagerfeld, that man can draw and has to come up with new ideas. He did go to art school.
 
G

GypsyGraphics

New Member
Rick said:
I thought I would share this interesting article...

It's raising a little ruckus on a design forum, but since
most sign guys are self taught, this might tighten up
some of your skills.

I do think going to school has advantages by the way...

http://www.good.is/posts/how-to-bec...um=social&utm_source=fbwall&utm_campaign=wall
Click to expand...

hmmmmm... what to say, what so say.....
well first off.... do you think the author of that article might have been served well to have taken a class on "the business of graphic design" or maybe "ethics in design?" if she had.... maybe she wouldn't have written something as stupid as...
"Steal, steal, steal at first. Don’t worry about being original—that will come later, once you are more comfortable with your craft. When you learn a musical instrument, you learn how to play other people’s songs before composing your own. Same goes for design."

really.... likening selling yourself as a designer to learning to play an instrument? wouldn't it be more accurate to compare it to trying to get a record deal, playing another artists music and passing it off as your own.

funny.... i find that a designer who's lacking the basic knowledge of copyright infringement.... a tell tale sign of someone who decided on their own to pick and choose what they would study to become a designer. the fact is, you don't know what you don't know. so if your going to teach yourself.... you damn well better find a better source of information than another "self taught" kid.

now, after all that.... would it surprise you to know, i agree? and that even after studying graphic design, there's an awful lot of really important stuff i never learned.... and it pisses me off when i realize there's some basic things that should have been an interracial part of the education process, that were lacking in my education.

seems to me, someone with innate artistic ability,some formal education and who never stops being self taught.... is like a flipp'n hat trick! but even without all three, there's nothing to say you can't play the game and even score. (once you learn the rules of the game)
 
OldPaint

OldPaint

New Member
i, like jill, when i started school 1st grade..........was ahead of the class with my eye, hand coordination skills. 1st grade teacher tol my parents at the 1st parents/teacher meeting........." you have an artist on your hands." they didnt care. i was doing 3rd-4th grade drawing in 1st grade. i was an only child and the only things that interested me was " drawing/painting & mechanical things. was introduced to a deaf mute at age 5-6, and he was a true artist. i found him the most interesting because he could recreate ANYTHING......you would point at, and make like you was drawing it.....HE WOULD DRAW IT EXACTLY. i worked really hard at this, but came nowhere near his ability. then a local guy, also talented at drawing, he was fresh outa the navy. he decided to be a sign painter. well guess who i hung around those summers? then my parents got a bar in 1957. i was 12. this guy shows up in a 1950 buick, 143L 1 shot green, with silver and 122L chrome yellow lettering!!!!!! i was hooked!!!! the guy saw i had a begining talent, and added to it. my life from then was never the same.
 
Rick

Rick

Certified Enneadecagon Designer
GypsyGraphics said:
hmmmmm... what to say, what so say.....
well first off.... do you think the author of that article might have been served well to have taken a class on "the business of graphic design" or maybe "ethics in design?" if she had.... maybe she wouldn't have written something as stupid as...
"Steal, steal, steal at first. Don’t worry about being original—that will come later, once you are more comfortable with your craft. When you learn a musical instrument, you learn how to play other people’s songs before composing your own. Same goes for design."

really.... likening selling yourself as a designer to learning to play an instrument? wouldn't it be more accurate to compare it to trying to get a record deal, playing another artists music and passing it off as your own.

funny.... i find that a designer who's lacking the basic knowledge of copyright infringement.... a tell tale sign of someone who decided on their own to pick and choose what they would study to become a designer. the fact is, you don't know what you don't know. so if your going to teach yourself.... you damn well better find a better source of information than another "self taught" kid.

now, after all that.... would it surprise you to know, i agree? and that even after studying graphic design, there's an awful lot of really important stuff i never learned.... and it pisses me off when i realize there's some basic things that should have been an interracial part of the education process, that were lacking in my education.

seems to me, someone with innate artistic ability,some formal education and who never stops being self taught.... is like a flipp'n hat trick! but even without all three, there's nothing to say you can't play the game and even score. (once you learn the rules of the game)
Click to expand...

>CRACKS KNUCKLES<

Got a lil spankin, from Ms. Gypsy

hmmmmm, lets see...

The article is flawed as this person is so new, she lacks even the basic understanding of design ethics... or does not explain herself well enough.
I believe "copying" a designer for practice is not a bad thing as long as it never gets shown. It can be a lesson in understanding the basic principles of design.
I think the practice of design is like anything else, has to have the same effort and discipline of an instrument. Music has it's own principles and elements that take practice... otherwise, everyone would sound like The Residents (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4MgYpfVfi4&list=ALBTKoXRg38BBLqLRqyvS7teQQG2oPB74o)

If sign designers stop practicing or refuse to learn the basic elements, they will stagnate and will never have the opportunity to widen their appeal. (and possibly make more money) I have seen this too many times...

The other thing wrong with the article is we don't get to see or know who inspired her... if it's Sheckie Finklestein from down the street, or some accomplished designer(S) like Jessica Hische, C.S. Anderson, Dana Tanamachi or a hundred others... she could have been copying cr@p! I know plenty of sign people that do.

I have argued this before and will argue it again... being a designer is not about knowing the software well... maybe being a replicator so you can redraw a logo fast, but does squat for conceptual thinking.. But using software is just about learning the pencil, it does not develop your eye, does not give you or teach you the elements of design. I am constantly shocked to find out that the process of design is not taught in most schools... I can only imagine how much easier it would have been these designers to have that process in practice sooner. All designers need to learn that and any school that does not, is doing a disservice for something that is very easy to teach while they are teaching them how to move a mouse... I think designers get ripped off in school and I think some are still good in spite of it. I think designers will be better putting the principles into practice.

You may have a point though... I probably should not lead people to a blog entry where some kid self taught themselves into a career... it's like the blind leading the blind. But I have some respect for this person going out and giving it a try after already having a degree in an unrelated field, decided that the chosen career was not for her, and made a career change.

Maybe one of us should make a blog entry about how we would teach ourselves design... who's gonna do it... I know, ROCK-PAPER-SCISSORS...
 
Joe Diaz

Joe Diaz

New Member
My problem with the article is that the author expects me to learn photoshop in order to be a designer. :Big Laugh

In all seriousness, I feel like most people view design as simply an art. I believe design is as much a science as it is an art, and therefore like most other sciences your understanding of that topic is strengthened by education in one form or another. However, it may not be a four year school for some, which goes along with my other theory that people learn in different ways. So even though I do agree that you can be "Schooled" in many different ways, I DON"T agree that natural born talents are what make a GOOD designer.

It always bothers me when I hear people say "Johnny was born a good musician, I mean look at how musical both his parents are." Too me a comment like that totally ignores all the effort Johnny put into learning and practicing his skill. And if Johnny were to grow up thinking his skills are simply inherited, he won't value his education to the same extent as the person who thinks they need to work for it. Perhaps Johnny is actually a good musician because he was brought up in a household surrounded by music and people willing to pass on what they have learned. But the truth is, only by putting in the effort himself, practicing and opening his mind to all the knowledge that is out there, can he really be successful.

And at the same time maybe little Jenny grew up in a household with police officers for parents and she saw that she wanted to take a different path and wanted a different life and that was her motivation to become an artist.

Either way, I believe design is very much law and rule driven, by simply falling back on the idea that one was simply born with the natural abilities you might miss out on why and how a design is successful. It's not about just knowing the rules of design, but understanding why those rules exist. Obviously creativity is important too, but I believe mainly because a creative mind is better at problem solving, and if you think about it, design is all about problem solving. Design is a lot like a puzzle. You have certain pieces that all fit together in the right way to create something that works.

I guess what I'm getting at is that education is important, but it can be acquired in different ways, and the motivations to want to learn can come from different places too. Everyone is a little different, I personally think the "schooling" should never end though. I also wonder if we as an industry would be respected more and perhaps paid better if we promoted the idea that our skills weren't somehow genetically gifted to us, but instead were acquired through years and years of hard work. Just something to think about.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
One can learn to play a piano by the book and take lessons for years and while still being top notch, might not have the 'Feel' of someone playing a piano by ear.

Surround yourself with greatness and it will rub off on you. Go to a school where the prof and students are there because it's a cheap school and you'll be a class 'C' graduate. I learned more in my years standing on a street corner, singing and harmonizing with the guys for hours on end, then I would've learned in any book learned classes..... and I could have a bottle in m y hand at the same time..... :rolleyes:

Same goes for learning to paint, draw, letter or create. If you have natural abilities, you're only going to hone them as well as the teacher you have in front of you. Surround yourself with winners and you can pick and choose what you want and need... and with everyone sharing, you're bound to be good, if not great.

There is something to be said for someone who came outta school with all those dollars and books under their wing, but some kid off the street with plenty of street smarts will draw or create circles around the smart kid. Sure, the smart kid might have the terminology down or know how to put things into words, but the street kid just has to learn a few words and put them to use.

The author of that article is just a little full of her/himself and taking a lot for granted. She thinks she's good cause she landed a job. Nowhere did it mention at what level or pay-scale she entered into the market.
​
 
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