I am Lost - Don't know where to go next

[Locals Find!]

I have a client that I am designing a business card for. I do all the work for the Office. The company logo was provided. The company colors are Black, Gold and White.

He tells me he wants a modern design and all the information you see on the cards. I mocked up three designs. Two with the company colors and one just in 3 shades of grey because I was pissed. He tells me none of them are working for him.

He isn't giving any real feedback. Other than "I don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling and I want it modern" So I am stuck and I don't know where else to go from here. Maybe some harsh comments and some try this could help get some juices flowing.

I may still "Fire" him but, I don't want to give up that easy.

Before you knock me Version 2 is done using a mockup stock photo I wasn't purchasing till he approved.

 

[chopper]

you need him to define modern,
so you can get on the same page as the customer
other wise you will just be spinning your wheels like you are now. his idea of modern and your just might be two different things..
//chopper

 

[AUTO-FX]

Yeah, modern to him may mean more angular and less curvey.
I think #1 doesnt look bad, but the black is really thick, dont you think?

 

[Gino]

I'm not gonna say anything negative or critical about your drawings so far, because according to some.... it's a good start.

I would recommend what chop says and get him to explain his do's and don'ts. If you can't get him to give you feedback, you need to ask more questions and educate him on some of the 'Modern' ideas/designs as you see them. Only then, can you move ahead.

 

[petesign]

At that point I usually ask them to show me one in a style they like.... at least then you know kind of what they are looking for. "Modern" can mean a lot of things.

I hate doing business cards, they take a ton of work and you don't make jack.

 

[Deaton Design]

I would not use the big capitals on the name. They look too big. On this type of card, you should just use standard caps.

 

[SignManiac]

A quick google search of modern business cards turns up tons of examples. So I would try and have a consult with him and narrow things down.

http://www.google.com/images?q=modern+business+cards&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS301US301&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbs=isch:1&ei=9us0Ta9ahPnwBr-8nPgI&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CB8Q_AUoAQ&biw=1680&bih=860

 

[Billct2]

What Pete said, have him show you some designs he likes and considers modern.

 

[Gino]

Good find, SM.

It must take alot of know-how to do that. Whatever possessed you to do take such a drastic action ??

 

[Locals Find!]

I would not use the big capitals on the name. They look too big. On this type of card, you should just use standard caps.

I agree. He made me make them that big I originally had it just standard. His idea entirely. I think its a horrid choice and never do that on a name if its my choice.

 

[Craig Sjoquist]

Yup agrees with everybody says, after designing what have been given and not liked I stop..; because alot more input is needed from customer.

Had a long time customer that wanted a logo change offered what they were talking about rejected .. I stopped..So they had someone design them one they liked .. then came back to me and I redid the newly designed logo so it was visible, ledgeable and readable.

 

[Locals Find!]

Yeah, modern to him may mean more angular and less curvey.
I think #1 doesnt look bad, but the black is really thick, dont you think?

Yeah, it is. I was going to go back and tweak it but he threw that one out the window so fast never bothered going back to it. I might go ahead and tweak it and keep it in the stock design folder I started.

 

[iSign]

ok... so you are here asking for design feedback... BUT, you are also posting that you "are lost" and you "were pissed" ...and that you might fire him... as well as some other comments about what he said he wanted, what he wasn't feeling... and what he made you do...


SO... IF YOU WANT HELP WITH THE WHOLE SITUATION (and I think you do)
-
-
-
-
and not just the layout...

lay out the transaction for us & we can advise you how we would handle it..

new client? old client? valuable client or not so much?

what is the design budget that has been discussed?

how much of an advance did you collect prior to these attempts?

when would he need to have the exhaustion of his original budget renegotiated?

you understand what I'm asking here right? we've all felt like firing clients before & no matter how much has to do with clients being high maintenance... the truth of the matter is that for the right price, most of us would continue to deal with some (not all) of our high maintenance clients...


so, I know you are new here, and not followed by throngs of loyal fans yet... but I'm trying to help you, and others who might have rather seen you leave are trying to help you...

someone told me a long time ago that nobody "makes" you do something, so that is a cop out... if you are going to defend yourself as having already been aware of the advice you receive, the advice will stop flowing.. mark my words... so for gods sake don't blow smoke here.. let us know if you collected a design fee yet, how much, what you promised for that amount, and how you will handle him if he doesn't get that "warm and fuzzy feeling' after you spent his entire budget?

 

[Locals Find!]

ok... so you are here asking for design feedback... BUT, you are also posting that you "are lost" and you "were pissed" ...and that you might fire him... as well as some other comments about what he said he wanted, what he wasn't feeling... and what he made you do...


SO... IF YOU WANT HELP WITH THE WHOLE SITUATION (and I think you do)
-
-
-
-
and not just the layout...

lay out the transaction for us & we can advise you how we would handle it..

new client? old client? valuable client or not so much?

Existing Client - Done some Magnets and a few Real Estate Signs for him (Office is much older client and contains many of my better clients)

what is the design budget that has been discussed?

I have an agreement with the office that business card designs are supposed to be covered at no extra charge. I get all the business from the office on signs, postcards, sign install etc.. Only thing I don't do are the promo pens and name tags. I get a set rate for each set of cards thats more than reasonable.

how much of an advance did you collect prior to these attempts?

No Advance. Reason stated above.

when would he need to have the exhaustion of his original budget renegotiated?

Right about now I am about to contact the office manager and ask permission to charge this agent for design. Given that all the other agents are pretty cut and dry and don't take more than 10 minutes. They all pretty much have similar tastes. So I have a portfolio of designs they choose from most of the time. Which works well for me and keeps things simple and profitable.

you understand what I'm asking here right? we've all felt like firing clients before & no matter how much has to do with clients being high maintenance... the truth of the matter is that for the right price, most of us would continue to deal with some (not all) of our high maintenance clients...


so, I know you are new here, and not followed by throngs of loyal fans yet... but I'm trying to help you, and others who might have rather seen you leave are trying to help you...

someone told me a long time ago that nobody "makes" you do something, (He requested that I make it larger and I agreed to do so. Hoping He would settle up on one of the 3 designs I was really hoping this would have been wrapped up by design #2. Was pissed that what is usually a cake walk turned into actual work. Normally I could do these in my sleep for this office. Just my own issues of wanting to call it a half day and lousy weather getting in my way.) so that is a cop out... if you are going to defend yourself as having already been aware of the advice you receive, the advice will stop flowing.. mark my words... so for gods sake don't blow smoke here.. let us know if you collected a design fee yet, how much, what you promised for that amount, and how you will handle him if he doesn't get that "warm and fuzzy feeling' after you spent his entire budget?

Hope I answered everything ok. Tried my best to lay it all out cleanly.

 

[iSign]

It's no wonder this agent does not value your time on this issue.
You have set it up to be this way yourself.

so, in my opinion.. you can't win.
only thing to help you do is lose gracefully.
don't just "ask" the boss if you can charge...

instruct the boss that your "agreement" was too vague, because the situation you have found yourself is unacceptable. At that point, TURN the topic to the need for integrity in the company brand... agents like to see themselves as free agents, and i know RE companies who offer heavily branded signs to agents, but the agent can custom make (& pay for) their own signs, complying only with the minimum required allocation of space to the company logo etc... Sell the guy on the benefits of consistency between agents cards, signs and other company marketing efforts... and if he wishes to allow agents to purchase totally custom cards, instead of the company issue standard.. then they pay for it themselves...

so, I think renegotiating your "agreement" for the foreseeable future would be in order at this juncture... lest this occur again.. and my suggestion is this... ONE design, for every future agent... come font choices, or tag lines & of course contact info may be subject to change.. hmm, maybe not font variations...

and to smooth over what may seem as a backing out of an agreement... maybe offer the boss 3 hours design time on this new company card policy

...offer 3 mock-ups, with 2 design consultations and 1 revision... one consultation prior to starting the clock, and one after 2 hours time, to receive his request for the revision (with the emphasis on the remaining time not to exceed 1 hour)...

 

[Locals Find!]

so, in my opinion.. you can't win.
only thing to help you do is lose gracefully.
don't just "ask" the boss if you can charge...

instruct the boss that your "agreement" was too vague, because the situation you have found yourself is unacceptable. At that point, TURN the topic to the need for integrity in the company brand... agents like to see themselves as free agents, and i know RE companies who offer heavily branded signs to agents, but the agent can custom make (& pay for) their own signs, complying only with the minimum required allocation of space to the company logo etc...

so, I think renegotiating your "agreement" for the foreseeable future would be in order at this juncture... lest this occur again.. and my suggestion is this... ONE design, for every future agent... come font choices, or tag lines & of course contact info may be subject to change.. hmm, maybe not font variations...

and to smooth over what may seem as a backing out of an agreement... maybe offer the boss 3 hours design time on this new company card policy

...offer 3 mock-ups, with 2 design consultations and 1 revision... one consultation prior to starting the clock, and one after 2 hours time, to receive his request for the revision (with the emphasis on the remaining time not to exceed 1 hour)...

Thanks Doug. Great Advice. Going to discuss that with them at Wednesday's meeting. I think you really hit on something I hadn't previously thought about because I got complacent(Lazy) with easy to work with agents. Your suggestion seems reasonable for both my time and their wallets. Will update this thread on how it goes.

 

[iSign]

you're welcome!


~your friendly neighborhood hothead... on a cool day

 

[signcrafters london]

Advertising for a real estate agent that doesn't have the guy's picture? Around here, agents have their pictures plastered on everything they own it seems.

 

[GypsyGraphics]

like you said... not much to go on.
the only thing we get from his logo is he likes his J big and maybe his idea of modern is bold and blocky.

with that little bit of info

 

[petesign]

^^^ Nicely done.