Louis' Family Restaurant Sign (before/after)

[darby07]

If it were our job, we would talk the customer out of the smaller sign with the hours on it and go with just the restaurants name. The majority of successful restaurants don't advertise their hours on their main sign, and there is a reason for that. I'd even drop the "homestyle cooking" or at the very least really downplay that part. This way you have much more room for just the name and less additional content to confuse passers-by. A sign like this isn't a business card or a yellow page ad, it's a "here we are", "this is what we are called" statement, any other information about what type of restaurant this is should be portrayed by style and feel of the design. In other words, for a sign like this, less is more. Perhaps the hours would be better suited on or by the entrance. That is generally where people look for that information anyway. Just my 2 cents.

I think we have a winner!!

 

[aandrews19]

I also agree about the hours. Tough part is they are pretty set on keeping things the same as what is already there. I had a real hard time convincing them to get away from brush script... I can't imagine trying to make them change their overall plan for the signs.

 

[darby07]

The customer is always right! And since that is the case, and you're adhering to what they want, then I'd say you've done a hell of a job. Love it!

 

[Speedsterbeast]

At the very least, drop the "Daily" in Daily Hours.

 

[Billct2]

Well at least show them the best option, never know it might just change their mind.

 

[Joe Diaz]

The customer is always right!

Except all the times when they are completely wrong. But you can't blame the customer. They don't do what the person they hired does for a living. They don't have the experience or knowledge of why you should or shouldn't do certain things. They may be knowledgeable and skilled at their own profession, but not everyone else's. However you can blame the the person who provides a poor product or service, that uses an excuse like "the customer is always right" to justify doing work that they know could be better.

You ever notice how some professions that don't dare use the phrase "the customer is always right" get a bit more respect than most sign makers or the checkout lady at wal-mart?

 

[Billct2]

Good point Joe, you never hear an electrician, mechanic or plumber say "The customer is always right", much less a surgeon.

 

[darby07]

Except all the times when they are completely wrong. But you can't blame the customer. They don't do what the person they hired does for a living. They don't have the experience or knowledge of why you should or shouldn't do certain things. They may be knowledgeable and skilled at their own profession, but not everyone else's. However you can blame the the person who provides a poor product or service, that uses an excuse like "the customer is always right" to justify doing work that they know could be better.

You ever notice how some professions that don't dare use the phrase "the customer is always right" get a bit more respect than most sign makers or the checkout lady at wal-mart?

Lol get off of your high horse! Obviously his customer wants and very much likes the hours sign. So basically what I just read is that if the customer doesn't go for your suggestions about the hours sign, you're going to pound on your chest and say "I know what you want and I know what you need!" and turn down some extra margin? LOL

 

[Gino]

The opposite side of the coin would be..... 'let the buyer beware'.

If the customer is always right.... or give the lady what she wants... seem to fall into your spiel, then perhaps you should look harder at yourself and see what or why you're caving in to what a novice wants.

To know your craft and your business, you need to basically dictate what's gonna go down and how. By pulling from your own experience as a sign person, past jobs, articles, other friends in this line of work and so many more reasons, you should be completely at ease merely stating, this is not good advertising.

A simple dialog could be..... I'll do what you want, but remember, I do this for a living and do two or three of these a week and I see on an almost daily basis.... what works and what doesn't. It might not be my reasoning, but I do know what works.... and that is not getting your best bang for your buck. A sign is to tell people who you are and where you are. Plain & Simple. Junking it up with hours and cutesie slogans or unnecessary items is only gonna take away from who you are and where you are. Now, I've given you some sound advice, take a day or two and look around town at signs which catch your eye. See what it is that you like about them.... color, simplicity, type styles.... whatever. Once we've decided on what it is you want, we'll proceed with whatever you want, but please, at least try the two day look around. Then, at least I feel you've been well informed and can make an educated decision.... even if it isn't what I recommend.

 

[Rick]

The customer is always right is a retail principle, not design...

I can see the client wanting an hour sign, especially if the entry
door hours sign is not all that visible from the parking lot.

If the customer was thinking of more bang for the buck, they would change
the pole sign face, add the hours below it (if were that important) and then do
the ID wall sign only.

One well placed truck or van and the hours sign is useless from the street
though I think no sign with that much copy is useful to vehicular traffic.

 

[darby07]

The opposite side of the coin would be..... 'let the buyer beware'.

If the customer is always right.... or give the lady what she wants... seem to fall into your spiel, then perhaps you should look harder at yourself and see what or why you're caving in to what a novice wants.

To know your craft and your business, you need to basically dictate what's gonna go down and how. By pulling from your own experience as a sign person, past jobs, articles, other friends in this line of work and so many more reasons, you should be completely at ease merely stating, this is not good advertising.

A simple dialog could be..... I'll do what you want, but remember, I do this for a living and do two or three of these a week and I see on an almost daily basis.... what works and what doesn't. It might not be my reasoning, but I do know what works.... and that is not getting your best bang for your buck. A sign is to tell people who you are and where you are. Plain & Simple. Junking it up with hours and cutesie slogans or unnecessary items is only gonna take away from who you are and where you are. Now, I've given you some sound advice, take a day or two and look around town at signs which catch your eye. See what it is that you like about them.... color, simplicity, type styles.... whatever. Once we've decided on what it is you want, we'll proceed with whatever you want, but please, at least try the two day look around. Then, at least I feel you've been well informed and can make an educated decision.... even if it isn't what I recommend.

Well said! But unfortunately for andrew, It already seems as if his customer is hell-bent on the current design. Hopefully you can pitch them Joe's original 2 cents, but if they don't budge, what you've got, since you're bound by strictly what the paying customers wants, it looks great! Big improvement over their original signage.

Cheers!

 

[Joe Diaz]

Lol get off of your high horse! Obviously his customer wants and very much likes the hours sign. So basically what I just read is that if the customer doesn't go for your suggestions about the hours sign, you're going to pound on your chest and say "I know what you want and I know what you need!" and turn down some extra margin? LOL

Hey I've done a lot of work to get high up on this horse. I'm a short dude.:Big Laugh

So let me ask you this: You will let a sign or design leave your shop, or put up a sign that you know is not as effective as it could have been without trying to sell them on the more effective option? You just assume the customer is always right? That they know how to do your job better than you?

If you knew me you would know I'm not much of chest pounder but I will do everything I can to try to steer my clients in the right direction. The very simple truth here is the customer in this case is wrong. It's that simple. Now I won't pound my chest, but I will do them the courtesy of telling them they are making a bad decision if they make a bad decision. If they are paying me to do a job, I owe them at least that.

I agree 100% with Gino. If I've done all I can to inform them the best way I know how, and they still won't listen to me, then it's buyer beware. Gino's dialog is spot on. No chest thumping there, just honest advice. A similar conversation would be had at our shop with our clients. We have found that the vast majority of our clients respect that honesty and advice, and return for more work because of our expertise. Believe it or not there are people out there who like to hire people who are knowledgeable in their trade. That's where we get our "extra margin"

Sure some won't listen but I at least feel comfortable with the fact that I didn't settle for the customer knows best routine and actually attempted to give them good advice.

 

[John Butto]

Or, after seeing Rick's google photo of the place, and since he wants the hour sign out there. Design the large top sign,on the brick facade, with his new logo you design for him and large hours so as to be seen and get rid of the bottom part. And then give him a nice new acrylic backlit with his new logo out front. I totally agree with Gino and Joe on their advice.
Joe, you can get those fake legs like Lord Farquaad has when he rides high on his horse.

 

[darby07]

Hey I've done a lot of work to get high up on this horse. I'm a short dude.:Big Laugh

So let me ask you this: You will let a sign or design leave your shop, or put up a sign that you know is not as effective as it could have been without trying to sell them on the more effective option? You just assume the customer is always right? That they know how to do your job better than you?

If you knew me you would know I'm not much of chest pounder but I will do everything I can to try to steer my clients in the right direction. The very simple truth here is the customer in this case is wrong. It's that simple. Now I won't pound my chest, but I will do them the courtesy of telling them they are making a bad decision if they make a bad decision. If they are paying me to do a job, I owe them at least that.

I agree 100% with Gino. If I've done all I can to inform them the best way I know how, and they still won't listen to me, then it's buyer beware. Gino's dialog is spot on. No chest thumping there, just honest advice. A similar conversation would be had at our shop with our clients. We have found that the vast majority of our clients respect that honesty and advice, and return for more work because of our expertise. Believe it or not there are people out there who like to hire people who are knowledgeable in their trade. That's where we get our "extra margin"

Sure some won't listen but I at least feel comfortable with the fact that I didn't settle for the customer knows best routine and actually attempted to give them good advice.

Understood I agreed with your original post about removing the hours sign, I even praised it But the fact of the matter in this case, from what I've gathered from Mr. Andrew is that the customer probably won't budge on revamping everything. Granted, my initial "The customer is always right" comment was slightly sarcastic, but I was just acknowledging that our man is bound by...dare I say it?...an ignorant customer. All of you guys are right, the client is not a designer and they don't see things in the same light as you hard working lads do, nor do they have the experience. They just know what they've had and what they want. Gino's dialogue suggestion was perfect, and you can educate the customer all you want, but at the end of the day, the money does all of the talking. I'm all for offering recommendations and providing solutions and educating the customer, but in circumstances such as this one, you just have to do your best to work within whatever restrictions you have.

Not trying to ruffle feathers, I swear! I'm a newbie on here and I come in peace!

 

[J Hill Designs]

My only input is - keep the sign inside the frame - post #1 shows it mocked up covering the frame...why?

 

[Gino]

Understood I agreed with your original post about removing the hours sign, I even praised it But the fact of the matter in this case, from what I've gathered from Mr. Andrew is that the customer probably won't budge on revamping everything. Granted, my initial "The customer is always right" comment was slightly sarcastic, but I was just acknowledging that our man is bound by...dare I say it?...an ignorant customer. All of you guys are right, the client is not a designer and they don't see things in the same light as you hard working lads do, nor do they have the experience. They just know what they've had and what they want. Gino's dialogue suggestion was perfect, and you can educate the customer all you want, but at the end of the day, the money does all of the talking. I'm all for offering recommendations and providing solutions and educating the customer, but in circumstances such as this one, you just have to do your best to work within whatever restrictions you have.

Not trying to ruffle feathers, I swear! I'm a newbie on here and I come in peace!

This kinda thinking is what's really wrong with this whole forum. No one listens, they just wanna say the same thing using different words. Cripes, we're all saying the same thing

The OP here has not lost the customer to dumbness, yet. He only knows the customer wants something not really necessary. Now, he has some ammunition to go back and try to educate this chef. It's up to the OP to see if he has balls big enough to go up to him and give him good sound advice. The chef can either take it, use it to his advantage... or ignore it.

Also, for calling me a lad..... you little stinker.
​

 

[darby07]

This kinda thinking is what's really wrong with this whole forum. No one listens, they just wanna say the same thing using different words. Cripes, we're all saying the same thing

The OP here has not lost the customer to dumbness, yet. He only knows the customer wants something not really necessary. Now, he has some ammunition to go back and try to educate this chef. It's up to the OP to see if he has balls big enough to go up to him and give him good sound advice. The chef can either take it, use it to his advantage... or ignore it.

Also, for calling me a lad..... you little stinker.
​

Touché!

 

[Jillbeans]

I'd keep the original frames too.

So many times I end up giving in to a customer who just refuses to listen to good advice.
I take their money (usually I charge a little extra to soothe my ego) and I never put the sign in my portfolio.

Lately I've had a few jobs where I was thrilled to land both the logo design as well as the signs to accompany it, and spent hours working on layouts of which I was quite proud.
Of course, I ended up being just a paid mouse manipulator and a computer-ugly producer. The customer is almost always wrong, but they are the ones who pay me.

 

[darby07]

I'd keep the original frames too.

So many times I end up giving in to a customer who just refuses to listen to good advice.
I take their money (usually I charge a little extra to soothe my ego) and I never put the sign in my portfolio.

Lately I've had a few jobs where I was thrilled to land both the logo design as well as the signs to accompany it, and spent hours working on layouts of which I was quite proud.
Of course, I ended up being just a paid mouse manipulator and a computer-ugly producer. The customer is almost always wrong, but they are the ones who pay me.

couldn't have said that any better myself

 

[SignManiac]

I've walked away from plenty of jobs. But my portfolio is nice and lands more work than what I might lose. I've been in business too long to let a customer be right when they are clearly wrong. I ride giraffes.