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Need help buying my first printer!

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foeller32

New Member
Here's my story - I have a business doing graphic design work for churches, and up 'til now I have basically functioned as a print broker, also. I've run into some problems with the banner supplier I was using, though, so I'm considering buying my own machine. I was buying printed banners on polypro from them for around $1.00 per square foot, and they were drop shipping to my customers, who I charged around $2.00 per sq. ft. I wish I could find someone else who could match that price, but I'm not having any luck - hence the decision to at least look into buying my own machine.

I'm learning that the current "way to go" is solvent inks, but probably 95% of the jobs I do are indoor banners, 36" or less in width. Solvent would be nice, but I think I could do fine with a uv or dye ink printer. I could easily outsource the occasional outdoor banner, if needed.

Does anyone have some good recommendations? I've looked into the hp designjet 5000/5500 a little bit. I know it's older technology now, but I could get the printer fairly cheap, so my startup costs would be lower. Does anyone know what ink costs would run with a 5500 (per sq. ft.)? I'm also told that I can run the 5500 without a RIP - printing directly from Photoshop. Is that true?

I also looked at the new Mutoh valuejet printers. They tell me with solvent ink I can keep the cost at around 25¢/sq. ft. Is that accurate? Do solvent printers need to be cleaned after each use?

I'm open to any ideas. Please just give me some good recommendations.
 
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CanuckSigns

Active Member
you sold to the end user for $2.00 a square foot, and now you want help from all the people you undercut?!?!

depending on your volume, even if you buy a machine, your cost after overhead etc. could be more than $1.00 a square!!

Also, you should seriously think about what you are saying, You want to spend money and buy a machine and all that comes with it (ink, media, electric, maintainance etc..) so you can lower your prices for your customers, so you are effectively raising your overhead, so you can decrease your profits?!?
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Welcome from PA.............................................



By the way..... how did you manage to fool your requirement tests ?? :Oops:​
 
Letterbox Mike

Letterbox Mike

New Member
Polypro (as in polypropylene?) Or POSpro?

For $1.00 p.s.f. regardless of media, it's no wonder you're having trouble with your supplier. If it's POSpro, nobody will come close to that price, the material alone costs a buck a square foot.

If you buy your own printer, be aware there is no way you'll be able to continue to honor the prices you've been charging, for long anyway. $2.00 p.s.f. retail is just way too low, there is very little room in that for overhead and profit, and zero margin for error.
 
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foeller32

New Member
Ouch! Looks like I jumped the shark on this one! To explain things better, the main thing I do is graphic design. That's where I make my money. I just got fed up with giving people files and then having them find a printer that would charge them an arm and a leg to print a banner. Once I had a supplier that gave me a good price (a really good price, I guess), I just started acting as a broker for my design customers. Btw, they were printing on polypropylene. I never chased other business and never did a local job. My only intent was to make life easy for the people I did design work for. I have a local printer right up the road that charges $11/sq. ft. for banners. I never "stole" a single customer from him. I just print for my already-established design customers.

I'm a noob - I'll admit it. I always wondered myself how my supplier could print so cheap. But, hey, they did it, so I wasn't about to complain. Once orders started getting lost and emails quit getting answered, though, I'm done - no matter how cheap they were.

I'm just at a point now where I need to decide what to do. If I need to raise my prices, then I'll raise them. Oh, well. Sorry if I upset anybody here. I'm just trying to figure out my best option at this point. Maybe buying a printer isn't a realistic option - I don't know, but I'm trying to find out. If I can find another wholesale printer with decent pricing, I'll go that route in a heartbeat. I don't expect to match the price I was paying before - I know that it was dirt cheap.

All I'm asking is some help getting pointed in the right direction. If I knew it all already, I guess I wouldn't be here asking for advice. If I'm nuts to want to buy my own printer, tell me why and I'll probably end up outsourcing to someone else.
 
HulkSmash

HulkSmash

New Member
if I were you just do a base price for design/banner? (for banner customers)
for example

if a banner is 10x4 = 40 sqft... 2 dollars a sqft would be 80 bucks..
so charge 6.50 a sqft and that includes design?
 
Flame

Flame

New Member
From your two posts I see no reason why anyone should help you get into business. You have no business sense, do not understand how to make money and do not understand how this industry even works. You can either

A) Leave this forum and industry and find somewhere where you'll fit in better (Mickey D's?)

or

B) Forget everything you've learned, take some advice, find a new supplier, start brokering with a new approach and a new pricing structure (AKA quadruple that retail price you told us), build your business until you're spending $20K+ a year on outsourcing your printing, then look into possibly a used SP300 or Prismjet and see where it takes you.
 
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CanuckSigns

Active Member
Flame said:
From your two posts I see no reason why anyone should help you get into business. You have no business sense, do not understand how to make money and do not understand how this industry even works. You can either

A) Leave this forum and industry and find somewhere where you'll fit in better (Mickey D's?)

or

B) Forget everything you've learned, take some advice, find a new supplier, start brokering with a new approach and a new pricing structure (AKA quadruple that retail price you told us), build your business until you're spending $20K+ a year on outsourcing your printing, then look into possibly a used SP300 or Prismjet and see where it takes you.
Click to expand...

:goodpost:
 
iSign

iSign

New Member
foeller32 said:
I'm just at a point now where I need to decide what to do. If I need to raise my prices, then I'll raise them.
Click to expand...


IF you need to??? Did you really just say "if"?
Are you not yet paying attention????

I sell printed banners every day for $10/sq. ft. ....EVERY day... for 5 years... and I am NOT screwing my customers... I am offering a great product, with great service, at the right price... and things stay the same, they come back... and I'm still here, unlike your guy... and by extension, unlike you now... you got yourself wrapped up in something you couldn't sustain, and it made you look bad...

Start at the beginning. You have a distorted, unrealistic & highly judgmental perception of the banner prices you customers were finding...

You were trying (inadvertently perhaps) to offer banner printing as a "loss leader" so that you could make it up on the design work...

Our retail prices are correct, the product IS worth the price, because millions of people willingly pay that, and the possibility exists for thousands of small service providers to pop up in every town, and cover their overhead to provide this service at this price ($8 - $10/ sq. ft.) ...hell, I sold 1 color banners for $6 - $7/ sq. ft. for 15 years before that...

...is not investing $50K in new technology, and enduring bi-weekly printer maintenance, (PLUS the dramatically increased marketing value of full color) justification for a few extra bucks per sq. ft.? DAMN RIGHT IT IS!!


foeller32 said:
I just got fed up with giving people files and then having them find a printer that would charge them an arm and a leg to print a banner.
Click to expand...

20 years of historic precedent, and successful small business people from coast to coast can't all be wrong....

one clueless newbie? - yep.. he can be wrong... DEAD WRONG!
GIT YER HEAD OUTTA THE SAND & FACE REALITY....

just because you had no freaking clue what these other business people had to buy, and have to do before the sale, and have to do to finish the job, and keep a shop open... you got yourself all jacked up with attitude about this "arm and a leg" perception & now you are you own worse enemy.... being dead wrong sucks... not facing it will kill your business..


carry on :popcorn:
 
Jim Doggett

Jim Doggett

New Member
foeller32 said:
Ouch! Looks like I jumped the shark on this one! To explain things better, the main thing I do is graphic design. That's where I make my money ...
Click to expand...

McDonald's makes money selling burgers, fries and sodas. That's their main thing / where they make money. But that does not mean they sell at a loss any new products they add to their offerings. Indeed, it would be foolish of them to do so. Would you not agree?

Don't screw up a market just because it has no (apparent) value to you. What comes around goes around, and the folks whose market you do not screw up can perhaps afford your design services. Maybe?
 
BigfishDM

BigfishDM

Merchant Member
Wow your getting roasted today!! Outsourcing is a good idea and yes you will have to raise some pricing if you want to make decent money. You could buy a cheap used machine and try to do it on your own but its just not the best way to get into this industry unfortunatley. BUT if you do decide to get a machine I can help steer you in the right direction.
 
phototec

phototec

New Member
iSign said:
You were trying (inadvertently perhaps) to offer banner printing as a "loss leader" so that you could make it up on the design work...
Click to expand...

From his web site:

"Our polypro banners are a great, low-cost solution for indoor banners. Polypro can also be used outdoors if protected from the wind. For projects where wind is an issue, our 15 oz. baqnner scrim is a better option.
Polypro banners are printed for $2.00/sq. ft. Vinyl scrim banners cost $2.50/sq. ft. Shipping charges are additional.
We can usually reprint an already designed banner with no design charges at all. Changes to existing designs or completely new designs will be billed at $25/hour."


http://www.ministrysupply.org/banners.html
 
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