What material is pylon and how do i remove this sign blank?

J

john1

Guest
Hey, I have a customer wanting a sign blank lettered and inserted into their existing sign cabinet. The blank is 58.5x27" according to the other sign shop.

You can see their sign in the bottom right corner that says Insurance. They got quoted by a local shop $500 to remove the old lettering on both sides of the cabinet and install new lettering. I'd like to use a fresh substrate possibly.

I was forwarded the email form the other shop and they called it a Pylon sign. I can't find Pylon at my supplier unless it goes by another name I'm not aware of and i have no idea if i would need 1/8 or 1/4" substrate

For the vinyl, i do have to use translucent correct?

Also, How do i get these blanks out so i can re-letter them? This is my first backlit sign.

Thanks!
 

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J

john1

Guest
Oh Alright, Thanks for clearing that up.

Any idea on the other questions? I'm guessing if i get a new substrate acrylic opaque white would be it
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
You need 3/16" stock of leaxn or modified acrylic. Pylon is the type of structure.

You're out here in the freebie section, so no numbers, but to replace those faces with die-cut vinyl is a small part of your cost. You're going to need a long ladder to take the lip off from the two sides, slide the old ones out and the new ones in. Then screw it back together.

Why did the other sign shop give you all of that information ?? I'd never give competition all the specs to underbid me. However, I do know a lot of shops that will give false numbers, so when guys like you lowball..... make them the wrong size and have to do it over at their own cost, because they tried to save a buck and not do their own survey.

I'd sooner think the owner of the store gave you the specs from another shop and you're just hoping those specs are correct.

Go out and measure them completely before you quote. You can't be off more than 1/4" or so... or they'll fall out. Ask me how I know this old trick.
 

Pat Whatley

Member
Go look at the cabinet. There should be an angled piece of metal on the right side that has a couple of screws holding it onto the cabinet. Take out the screws, remove the metal bar. That should give you access to slide the panel out. If it's in good shape you can strip it and reletter it. If it's not then replace it.

Translucent vinyl is your best bet.
 

Pat Whatley

Member
Why did the other sign shop give you all of that information ??

Not that I've ever done it but I know of a shop that used to give out that information all the time....of course they always gave out the measurements from the inside edge of the retainer pieces so that if the sign was made to those specs it what too small to stay in the cabinet and since it was smaller it couldn't be cut down and relettered. Amazing how having to eat a sheet of lexan will kill the profit margin on a job.

Wait....I just re-read your post. You already said that.

Carry on. Nothing to see here.
 
J

john1

Guest
The client forwarded me the exact email from the other shop. That's how i got the numbers for everything.

Gino, How do i know if i need 1/8, 1/4 or 3/16" without taking the sign blanks out?

I'm just looking to replace the substrate with a fresh board since i don't want any ghosting on the old board.

Thanks!
 

John Butto

New Member
working by the hour

"I can't find Pylon at my supplier unless it goes by another name I'm not aware of and i have no idea if i would need 1/8 or 1/4" substrate"
Better add an hour to your cost for looking for pylon at your supplier.
"and could you please pylon those onions and tomaters to my burger"
 

John L

New Member
Gino's right! I even heard of a guy that lost a job where he was specifying a 24' tall pylon sign once. Do you know that the shop that underbid, won the job, built and installed a VERY similarly designed sign was up in arms when the zoning folks started nosing around THEIR 24' tall sign. It turned out the zoning ordinance limited heights to 20'.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
3/16" is industry standard unless you're doing pan faces.

Go out and physically measure those faces YOURSELF from top to bottom and left to right.

Never go by another shops e-mail. You'll get burned real quick with that one.


Modified acrylic is just as strong if not stronger than lexan. It also won't become brittle like lexan in two or three years and it doesn't yellow at all, like lexan.
 

Jillbeans

New Member
If this is not something you do, you shouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole.
If you don't even know which materials to use that shows your inexperience.
And I agree, NEVER ever go by another shop's measurements.
I know you need the work but you probably won't make very much money on this one.
Someone else will probably do it still cheaper.
The only way I would do this job is if the client brought the faces to me and I could do 'em in my shop.
Love.....Jill
 

surf city

New Member
HINT- Who cares if you got the "exact" e-mail forwarded to you from the owner who got the e-mail from the original sign shop.
ALWAYS take your own measurements. How do I know ? cause I drank the whole case of beer cause I won the bet. A friend was quoting a job and got "The exact e-mail" from the building owner and just went with it after I told him he should probably not take their word for it. Argument ensued, a bet was placed and I drank the beer cause guess what..............the e-mail was for a different sign on the property. Good luck, hope you get the job and you make money.
 
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signage

Member
Most do not put down the sizes on the estimate. All they are buying are replacement faces so the measurements are only for estimating purposes and to screw the next lazy one!:)
 
J

john1

Guest
Well i have another question but i'm a bit afraid to get ragged or my head bitten off but....

How would cast vinyl look on a backlit at night?

I will never get into these types of jobs if i don't make myself familiar with what's needed for them.
 

John Butto

New Member
apprentice

When I was a young man and came into my Grandfather's shop and told him I was looking for some pylon material in the supply catalog, they would have given me grief for a month. Read up on past posts and read everything you can on translucent material, acrylic, lexan etc. etc. No question is stupid if you don't know the answer but there is more to this craft than just a plotter and inkjet. So grab a screwdriver (that is the long round steel tubing with a handle) and a ladder and take the retainer (metal piece holding the material in place) off and measure and learn something.
 

Pat Whatley

Member
Some colors in some brands look okay, some look really dark. Do it with translucent....you won't spend that much more and you know it will look right.
 

signage

Member
Take some of your scarp and remove the backing paper and hold them up to a light or fluorescent light and see how they look!

Also look through your catalogs and see all the different types of vinyl and see if something sound like it may be for back lit signs!

If you want to succeed in this trade you need to educate yourself!
 
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