how long do you guarantee your wraps????

[bob]

And commodities are what you get when selling vinyl by the pound. Available from any sign shop. Therefore consumer has no choice to view your shop as the same as every other shop, and the lowest denominator (price) is what drives purchasing decision.

Service will sell for far higher price than any commodity, because the service can't be obtained at every shop.

You just keep telling yourself that. Maybe if you say it often enough and huff and puff sufficiently, it will, as if by magic, become true.

The inarguable fact is that, within reasonable bounds, each shop is pretty much the same as any other shop.

It has always struck me that the desire to be a singularity, to be special, reaches obsessive levels in this business. The notion that you and everyone else is unique, separate and apart, from that nest of philistines down the road is pervasive. The only other place I've ever encountered this at these levels is among horseshoers. They too all think they're unique and they and they alone are the only one competent to shape and nail on shoes. But don't stop, the rationalizations created to support this bit of self deception are always entertaining.

That being said, in the finest Aristotelian tradition you and everyone else and your work are indeed unique. Unfortunately that uniqueness exists at a level that's undetectable by the naked eye so to speak. It's at a level that makes little if any functional difference between your product and anyone else's.

If you want to be serviced, hire a hooker. If you're lucky she'll even toss in some gratuitous complements dealing with your carnal prowess and the gargantuan size of your member.

 

[Dan Antonelli]

You just keep telling yourself that. Maybe if you say it often enough and huff and puff sufficiently, it will, as if by magic, become true.

The inarguable fact is that, within reasonable bounds, each shop is pretty much the same as any other shop.

It has always struck me that the desire to be a singularity, to be special, reaches obsessive levels in this business. The notion that you and everyone else is unique, separate and apart, from that nest of philistines down the road is pervasive. The only other place I've ever encountered this at these levels is among horseshoers. They too all think they're unique and they and they alone are the only one competent to shape and nail on shoes. But don't stop, the rationalizations created to support this bit of self deception are always entertaining.

That being said, in the finest Aristotelian tradition, you and everyone else and your work are indeed unique. Unfortunately that uniqueness exists at a level that's undetectable by the naked eye so to speak. It's at a level that makes little if any functional difference between your product and anyone else's.

If you want to be serviced, hire a hooker. If you're lucky she'll even toss in some gratuitous complements dealing with your carnal prowess and the gargantuan size of your member.

I don't need to huff and puff to make it come true Bob. Our agency lives and breathes it, and our success is proof of the concept. We are special and unique, and to say what makes our work different than anyone else or is indistinguishable to the naked eye, is perhaps one of the more ridiculous statements I may have heard. If it wasn't, I wouldn't have people around the globe hiring us, because according to your logic, they'd be able to get that down the road.

Mediocrity is a crutch many shops use to justify their lack of abilities, or perceived inability of their clients 'to see the difference'. If that philosophy works for you, great - no worries, and congratulations. It's all good. I have a different approach. I sell a service. I'm vested in our clients success, and as a company, we're passionate about what we provide.

 

[bob]

I don't need to huff and puff to make it come true Bob. Our agency lives and breathes it, and our success is proof of the concept. We are special and unique, and to say what makes our work different than anyone else or is indistinguishable to the naked eye, is perhaps one of the more ridiculous statements I may have heard. If it wasn't, I wouldn't have people around the globe hiring us, because according to your logic, they'd be able to get that down the road.

That should be 'If it weren't...' not 'If it wasn't..." . A bit of contention should not compromise one's grammar, eh?

'Naked eye' was a metaphor, perhaps poorly chosen, intended to mean that while there may be a difference detectible by fellow practitioners, it remains elusive to those not in the business. Therefore it would not be a meaningful difference.

Could you tell the difference between two diamond of equal size and cut, one perfect and one with hideous flaws undetectable by the naked eye? If you were to sport the flawed stone do you think people would take one look at it and recoil in horror, pointing and screaming "Unclean...", and refuse to tango with you?

People around the globe hire you because they're going to hire someone and you or your other clients managed to get in front of them with your particular flavor of hype. There's also an even larger, vastly larger, number of people around the globe that don't hire you. How do you explain that?

I'm sure you believe what you say. It's difficult to be a successful salesman without believing your own bilge about just how your stuff is a superior product. Fervent belief in something does not make it true. It it were so Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny, would most certainly exist.

 

[cdiesel]

I'd agree to an extent that there is a bit of a catch 22 situation. If you are in a scenario where you cannot tell your customer that you have absolute confidence in your or your installers ability then I woudl clearly communicate this to the customer and offer a significant discount.

This is exactly what we tell newbies NOT to do on a consistent basis here. Just because you're new, you have lower overhead, or are used to making a hundred bucks a day, doesn't mean you should lower your price. Learn your trade before you start selling it!

 

[cdiesel]

The inarguable fact is that, within reasonable bounds, each shop is pretty much the same as any other shop.

Bob, I usually agree with a lot of what you say, but I have to respectfully disagree here. Maybe in your neck of the woods all of the shops are on par with each other. Around here, that's simply not the case, and you don't have to be in the industry or have a magnifying glass to see the differences. When customers come to us with vinyl falling off of their vehicle, believe me, they can tell you something's wrong.

 

[Dan Antonelli]

I'm sure you believe what you say. It's difficult to be a successful salesman without believing your own bilge about just how your stuff is a superior product. Fervent belief in something does not make it true. It it were so Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny, would most certainly exist.

I don't just believe it. A lot of people believe it. I suppose the judges who have recognized us with over 150 awards also believe it. Or the 600+ businesses who have trusted us with their work. Strangely enough, all those people - including the lay people - we able to recognize we provide something different. How can that be since we're the same as everyone else according to you?

Based on your logic, would all the people who believe 2+2=4 also be incorrect - because so many people really do believe that. And just because so many people believe it to be true, apparently doesn't make it true.

 

[SightLine]

I am in no way saying to just give them a lower price or undercut the market because you run out of your garage or whatever. I'd never promote doing things that would depress the overall market pricing. In the scanrio I mentioned it is imperative that it is clearly communicated to the customer that you are offering them a ONE TIME special price if they will allow you to have an apprentice installer (yourself or an employee) do their installation. Also explaning that this discount also compensates them for the extra time you will need their vehicle and that the install is still guaranteed to be excellent. Then offer them the full price option - if they want it done quickly then have your experienced installer do the install or contract the install to someone who does have the experience that you trust to do the job right.

When properly explained clients will often jump at the chance for the one time (imperative that they are made clearly aware this is not the regular price) discount for the minor inconvenience of you keeping their vehicle for 3 days instead of 1.

On service and quality. I'm with Dan. We have been going for about 8 years. In the past 5 years we have done precisley zero paid advertising for our shop. We are flooded with work based soley on our reputation for excellence. Interestingly we do a LOT of government work where we are not the lowest bidder by quite a bit. More often than not on any project where a customer is getting competitive quotes, we are not the lowest price. However more often than not, we still get the job based on our reputation and experience as well as how we present ourselves.

This is exactly what we tell newbies NOT to do on a consistent basis here. Just because you're new, you have lower overhead, or are used to making a hundred bucks a day, doesn't mean you should lower your price. Learn your trade before you start selling it!

 

[rjssigns]

It all boils down to each of having a unique sought after talent based on our demographic. We do not hold to the "cookie-cutter" mentality. It is also pure business sense to differentiate oneself from the herd. If we all did exactly the same thing everyone's slice of the pie becomes quite small.

I have clients that have told us repeatedly we are by no means the most economical. People come to us because we deliver exactly what they want on time and on budget. They also love the customer service, which it seems is becoming the deciding factor.

 

[garisimo]

Dan's work and professional ethic speaks for itself -- not only is he an outstanding designer but his approach to customer service is something to be emulated, not derided.

 

[bob]

I don't just believe it. A lot of people believe it. I suppose the judges who have recognized us with over 150 awards also believe it. Or the 600+ businesses who have trusted us with their work. Strangely enough, all those people - including the lay people - we able to recognize we provide something different. How can that be since we're the same as everyone else according to you?...

If 50,000,000 people believe something to be true, that does not make it true. Truth is independent of belief.

I should think that people recognized that you provide something. I seriously doubt that any of them were cognizant of any difference between your product and another. At least any difference that you yourself didn't proclaim. There is no evidence that they would not have been just as happy, just as successful, with someone else's product. The major difference between your product and someone else's is the size and texture of the velvet suppository that you used to stroke the client.

...Based on your logic, would all the people who believe 2+2=4 also be incorrect - because so many people really do believe that. And just because so many people believe it to be true, apparently doesn't make it true.

You might want to leave the deductive syllogisms to others.

I posed that believing in something did not make it true. Belief contributes nothing to the truth of a proposition. That does not transmogrify into some proposition not being true because it was believed to be true.

Whether 2+2=4 very much depends on whether enumeration is transcendental. If it is the 2+2=4 is always true. Otherwise it's merely local convention. Regardless, if 2+2=4 then it does so regardless of whether you or anyone else might believe that it does.

 

[Ponto]

:ROFLMAO:

JP

 

[Mikeifg]

I agree with Dan as well. We're not all the same. All of or most of us wanted to set the world on fire with our LOWER prices and try to hoard the market when we started out. The shops around my area seem to live by it Cookie cutter internet bought designs thrown on vehicles for prices I can't touch. So I decided it was time to focus on more quality and less about price. It's been ok but because of all the cheap hacks that are the same. The customers around here are now more concerned with price over quality, Who cares if it lasts a year Jethro gave me a good deal out of his house....

 

[HulkSmash]

Here comes bob with his skewed logic. Dan - no need to argue with the guy. You have proven results with what you do over the competition. Bob is just mumbling words, begging to be heard.
Then when he figures out he lost, he tried to catch you on grammar.

Sorry bob i refuse to believe, my shop is on the same level as Addys (no pun). <-- that is your logic.

 

[cdiesel]

When properly explained clients will often jump at the chance for the one time (imperative that they are made clearly aware this is not the regular price) discount for the minor inconvenience of you keeping their vehicle for 3 days instead of 1.

The only problem I have with this (and maybe you are VERY clear and really explain this to all of your customers) is that the majority of customers will glance right over the part where you say you're "training" and only hear the part where you're $500 less than the last shop they talked to.

Do you literally say & put in the quote when you send it out that an apprentice will be installing the wrap, and that you don't have a lot of experience in wrapping? Cause I've seen a lot of competitor's quotes, and I know for a fact they don't have any experience, but they fail to mention that on their quotes...

 

[HulkSmash]

I have no Idea why a shop would even consider telling a customer "I have a new installer he's still learning" We hired a guy for wraps in October. He has been trained by us, and finally last week, he started installing on his own. Not as clean in the cuts yet, but he's getting there. So almost 6 months of training before we allowed him to do a wrap, and he already had previous experience with wraps.. just not to our standards.. now he's great.


He could have done a wrap no problem back in december, but not to the standards i would let it go to a customer.

so yes, firm believer in giving training to new installers before putting them to work on a final product.

 

[cdiesel]

If 50,000,000 people believe something to be true, that does not make it true. Truth is independent of belief.

I understand exactly what you're saying about truth not being determined by belief. However, it's a fact that my shop can't design as well as Dan's, and Dan's can't install vinyl as well as mine. Therefore, we are different.

 

[Billct2]

The inarguable fact is that, within reasonable bounds, each shop is pretty much the same as any other shop

.
Well I'm arguing so I guess it's not a fact or inarguable.
I would bet a month's salary that if I took a few awful wrap designs that I have seen on here and put them in a line up with Dan's designs the average business owner would be able to pick out the guilty ones.

 

[Gino]

So, if 2+2=4.... and that's a fact, does 3+1 still equal 4 ?? Or are there other variations to get to the end result ?? Does 12 ÷ 3 = 4 ?? Does the square root of 16 fit in anywhere ?? Where does that leave 10-6 lead to ??

If I like chocolate and you like vanilla..... does that make us equal because we like ice cream ?? Does it dumb down to a chocolate cupcake or a vanilla cupcake ??

If I like chocolate, is it wrong or different to like vanilla chocolate ??

 

[Circleville Signs]

So, if 2+2=4.... and that's a fact, does 3+1 still equal 4 ?? Or are there other variations to get to the end result ?? Does 12 ÷ 3 = 4 ?? Does the square root of 16 fit in anywhere ?? Where does that leave 10-6 lead to ??

If I like chocolate and you like vanilla..... does that make us equal because we like ice cream ?? Does it dumb down to a chocolate cupcake or a vanilla cupcake ??

If I like chocolate, is it wrong or different to like vanilla chocolate ??

My head just assploded.....

 

[ProWraps]

u should call an amberlamps.