Printing media 101

[Colin]

I was wondering if you have considered buying used. I know most people's response is a fear of limited warranty etc. However, given the unfortunate economic climate right now, I think you should be able to get a very good deal. Also, Roland in particular has a very good track record as far as durability and dependability, in my opinion this makes this brand's used printers a very attractive option, as long as you are careful in your selection.

Thanks for that. Yes, it does inherently carry a huge risk. I can't remember where, but I recall reading an account of a person who bought used, and then had to spend a few thousand dollars on it (heads or something).

If I were to get a used SP, I think I would want it to be a newer "i" series.

I was going to say that you could buy a bigger like-new used printer for less than the cost of a new smaller printer.

Yes, this is enticing isn't it? I know of a couple of used sign equipment sites, but if anyone feels like spending a few minutes looking on ones that I might not be aware of (for an "i" series 540) that would be very kind and appreciated.

Like most people I would normally advise on a larger printer. However, given your space limitations a smaller printer does make sense.

Update: As I said earlier today, my boat is now gone (sniff) and now my space is free for re-arranging. (Yes, my boat took up half my shop - I had a bad fishing habit, but through an intervention, some counselling, rehab and detox, I've let it go...........:Big Laugh). Anyways, I've now moved a couple of main items like my 4x8 easel table on wheels, table saw, etc, and this has allowed me to place some masking tape on the floor representing the printer body and stand legs................and you know what......a 540 isn't as bad as I thought. Even though I had my floor plan and every detail drawn to scale in my sign program, the bird's-eye-view made it look more crammed than the "real" method with the tape.

So, I think I may be persuaded to bite the bullet on the SP540i. It's still a chunk of change though, and one of the reasons (which I haven't mentioned so far) that I have to be careful in my printer choice is the fact that my wife is battling with Lyme Disease right now, and I may be the sole bread-winner for a while. So I don't want to blow an extra 6K if I don't need to.

*Because our *@#*! medical system is in a state of denial about Lyme Disease, we are having to treat it on our own (out of our own pockets), with a private doctor, and it's always a long haul out of this nasty bacterial infection. The meds aren't cheap, and she's been off work for 6 months already. Long story. This was a small part of the reason for selling the boat, but it was tied into the fact that I have to amp up my business in order to keep it up to date, relevant, and avoid being marginalized. There was no place to keep the boat outside, and I didn't want to start paying for storage (or moorage), so it had to go.

Anyways, thanks for your comments, I'll give that some thought.

 

[Colin]

If I can ask a basic question,what are you going to be printing, what kind of customers do you have...

Ah, a bit of everything. "I'll sign anything".

Also remember that you are getting a plotter at the same time, so if you go with 54'' you are getting a 54" plotter also. I will repeat what I said earlier in the post, not all materials will be available in 30". My banner business is booming and 30" is just not wide enough. If you want to hem the banner you will be down to what - about 26 - 27". So if someone wants a simple 3x8 banner you will have to print two 18"x8' panels, seam them together, hope they match and then hem the edges and throw away 2-12"x8' foot scraps. So that is why the 54" cost more, of course there is not $6,000 more worth of metal, there is $6,000 worth of value. I do not know about everyone else but I do not charge $.32 more per square for cast film because that is how much more per sq ft it costs me over calendared. I charge $2-3 more because there is value in film that has the extra life and versitility.

Good points - thanks.

 

[trakers]

..

 

[gnatt66]

i love my 30" printer...ive had to outsource a few times, WAY less than the difference in price between the two.

its VERY affordable, media is as well...and i craigslisted an awesome ledco laminator for super cheap. im set up properly for a modest investment.

no regrets here...but i did go VP300i for the speed, etc.

 

[Colin]

^^^ Thanks ^^^

 

[Colin]

I remember seeing here or on the 'net somewhere......."Questions to ask when buying a used solvent printer"

Does anyone know where I might have seen that, or what those questions should be?

(Roland SP300v with firmware upgrade)


Thanks

 

[CanuckSigns]

Don't forget when you lay out your floor plan to accomidate enough are area around the machine to load the media from the back and make sure that the ink cartridges are not going to be in the way and get accidently bumped (they are on the far right side of the printer and extend about 14 inches outside of the printer for the 440ml carts.) I would allow a minimum of 4 feet of space behind the machine, nothing worse than trying to fit into a tight space while trying to handle a 75 pound role of banner.

Sorry to hear about your wife, i'm very suprised to hear that our healthcare doesn't treat it, but that is for another thread.

 

[Colin]

Thanks, I've just come across a used SP300V and may consider that.

Question: If I will not be going through ink very quickly (as I'm not a high volume shop) should the 440 size cartridges be avoided? Do they dry out over time, or are they good for a long time?

 

[CanuckSigns]

we are not a high volume shop either, I've had certain colours sit in the printer for up to 5-6 months without any problems. that being said, there is no real cost savings of buying the 440 cartridges, it's just less changing out. also, I would recommend sticking with original roland ink, for the small savings it's not worth the potential problems.

 

[Colin]

Well, for my birthday present today, I pulled the trigger on a new SP540i.

The rep will drop by tomorrow to get a deposit and finalize the media that will be included, so in a week to 10 days, it'll be here in it's new home.

Even up until today I really wrestled over the 30" vs 54" decision, but the larger unit won out for various reasons.


I'd like to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. The purchase of ones first printer is like entering an unfamiliar dark forest, and y'all have helped illuminate it for me, each with your own little candle.

Now get ready for a landslide of related questions in about a week. :Big Laugh


Thank you.

Es usted muy amable!

 

[randya]

Thanks again for the last few comments. One thing that has been mentioned a few times is how the matte vinyl results in a better print than gloss. I find this counterintuitive as we all know the dramatically better prints one gets out of their desktop printer when using a glossy photo paper rather than regular paper. I know the analogy is flawed because the regular paper actually soaks in the ink, and vinyl doesn't, but why does matte offer a better result?

It doesnt seem that this really got answered.

The answer is simple physics.
Matte finishes have more surface area.

In aqueous digital printing dot gain control and ink adsorption and absortion is controlled by a special coating. (which adds to the cost of the media)

In solvent digital printing on uncoated vinyl, dot gain control is a function of the media (various media have different surface textures and absorption capabilities) and the profile, which include how much ink is laid down how fast. (ink limits/temperature/print speed).

Having a greater surface area means that more ink can be laid down faster at lower temperatures reducing banding and printing artifacts. In addition the 'texture' of matte material tends to hide artifacts better.

Glossy vinyl tends to require a more exacting profile (ink limits/temps) and environmental conditions to give 'show quality' output.

I have seen various studies that demonstrate that matte materials are easier to read as well, the 'reflective' properties of gloss as stated in another post give glare, however it has been my experience that most people will ask for the gloss banner, as it 'looks' more like a photo.


Congrats on your purchase!

While I, too, think you will be happier with a 54" machine in the long run, I think the real key is that the real limits are those of your own imagination and creativity.

Good luck!

 

[Gino]

Believe it or not.... I'm happy for ya.................

​

Now, go and get a big Squeegee and start looking into a laminator.














.

 

[Tim Aucoin]

Congrats Colin You made a wise decision in going with 54"!
If you ever have questions regarding media and such, you can always contact me. I went through the exact learning curve you're going through a few years back and I've learned a ton... mostly thanks to :signs101:.

I've got 3 suppliers that I depend on most, and they carry a very wide variety of everything I could ever need! Did you decide on a winder yet?

 

[Colin]

Thank Tim. Yes, the machine is coming with a 3rd party take-up reel. I'd get the Roland T/U but it's just too much cake.

 

[Colin]

Big day! Got the SP540i delivered this morning, and it's up & running. I did a number of small sample prints and it's surprising how "off" some of the colours were, but we downloaded the Roland colour pallette into CorelDraw, and I'll print off that large swatch and refer to that I suppose.

Wow - those 440 cartridges sure stick out a long way! I think I'll stick to 220s when they run out just for the valuable space lost. With my particular set-up, it will make a considerable difference.

I must give a plug to William (Bill) at Pony Graphic Solutions; he's been very helpful and a pleasure to deal with.

Thanks again all for the various advice/comments/tips etc.


Question: How come the plywood I'm trying to feed into the printer is so dang tight under the pinch rollers?

 

[Malkin]

Yes, I stick with 220's for the same reason. I find that I need about 24" minimum space behind the printer to load media.

Congrats!!

 

[Tony McD]

...having to load larger rolls from the back would seem weird to me after four years of loading from the front on the 300v. I've got it maybe 6" from the wall.

I had two large and several small banner jobs last year that I could have used the larger machine on, that I had to sub out. I really would have rather made them myself.

Just paid off the 300 a couple months ago, and don't miss having the payment right now.
Next one will be a 54"

You did good.

 

[Colin]

It's awesome. After getting terrible results with various colours, my dealer had us download the Roland pallette into CorelDraw, and then print off the entire pallette onto the white media for results thet I can refer to and know exactly what I'm going to get. (I then cut the pallette into the 8.5" x 11" sheets that it's set for with crop marks). It's working out well.

 

[gabagoo]

It's awesome. After getting terrible results with various colours, my dealer had us download the Roland pallette into CorelDraw, and then print off the entire pallette onto the white media for results thet I can refer to and know exactly what I'm going to get. (I then cut the pallette into the 8.5" x 11" sheets that it's set for with crop marks). It's working out well.

It's those colour swatches that will save you so much time trying to match colours. Try printing the same swatches at different resolutions and you get more selections.
I wish I had known about that when I first got into printing and it would have saved me so many headaches and frustrations.

 

[Colin]

Yes, some of them look radically different on the screen, even though it is a correct numerical match to the swatch. It's a great tool. Even using the "Pantone Bridge" book doesn't work (CMYK) as that refers to the printing industry where they are using different inks on paper.