synergy_jim
New Member
you should have stopped with the aluminum composite and told him if that was to expensive then find someone else..... now you are going to have to pay....
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Customer who wanted the cheap option!!!
- Thread starter heyskull
- Start date
Techman
New Member
Left field? Oh my the little puppy can bark.
You mean to tell me you don't understand commodity pricing?
You mean to say you have the audacity to make some disparaging remark and have no concept of pricing your work as a commodity?
Let me help you just a little bit. He let the client bid the price down to the cheapest factor. He priced his work to the lowest bid instead of pricing his work for the custom work it is. And now he is being asked to fix it as if it was picked up at the Big K store.
You mean to tell me you don't understand commodity pricing?
You mean to say you have the audacity to make some disparaging remark and have no concept of pricing your work as a commodity?
Let me help you just a little bit. He let the client bid the price down to the cheapest factor. He priced his work to the lowest bid instead of pricing his work for the custom work it is. And now he is being asked to fix it as if it was picked up at the Big K store.
threeputt
New Member
Techman has a point here, I think.
When our customers view our work as simply "signs by the pound" rather than the custom crafted work it really is, it's "value" is diminished. (in the eyes of that consumer)
And like the Big K, Target, and Walmart's of the world, the name of the game then becomes how much product can I get for the smallest sum of money.
We don't compete on price point although I guess in some markets that's the name of the game. If I can't make a good living in this business, charging a fair price....then something's wrong with my business model.
When our customers view our work as simply "signs by the pound" rather than the custom crafted work it really is, it's "value" is diminished. (in the eyes of that consumer)
And like the Big K, Target, and Walmart's of the world, the name of the game then becomes how much product can I get for the smallest sum of money.
We don't compete on price point although I guess in some markets that's the name of the game. If I can't make a good living in this business, charging a fair price....then something's wrong with my business model.
MikePro
New Member
you didn't replace the whole sign, just small panels right? i'm still curious how they simply blew-out.
everyone's assuming cheap materials did you in, because that's all the information currently provided, but maybe it could have easily been poor sign hardware/installer oversight?
everyone's assuming cheap materials did you in, because that's all the information currently provided, but maybe it could have easily been poor sign hardware/installer oversight?
Joe Diaz
New Member
There is only a cheap option that is destined to fail in a short amount of time, if you provide a cheap option that is destined to fail in a short amount of time.
We would have turned down the job if they can't afford to have it done right, because if a sign fails early, even if you warned them it could, and they get upset, which they always will, you have to know that when they go around telling everyone that the sign failed, they won't say it's because they couldn't afford to have it done right, they will say it's because you screwed up. I would rather have the reputation of being expensive... than have the reputation that your signs fail after a few weeks. Just my opinion.
We would have turned down the job if they can't afford to have it done right, because if a sign fails early, even if you warned them it could, and they get upset, which they always will, you have to know that when they go around telling everyone that the sign failed, they won't say it's because they couldn't afford to have it done right, they will say it's because you screwed up. I would rather have the reputation of being expensive... than have the reputation that your signs fail after a few weeks. Just my opinion.
MikePro
New Member
Bly
New Member
Sorry to say it sounds like you made your own bed there mate.
I get cheap customers all the time wanting the ubercheap option but I only quote to do jobs the right way.
I laugh when I drive past a sign I quoted only to see it's been done in a much cheaper way. And you know what? It always looks cheap.
As has already been said you should count your lucky stars the panels didn't fall on somebody and hurt them.
I get cheap customers all the time wanting the ubercheap option but I only quote to do jobs the right way.
I laugh when I drive past a sign I quoted only to see it's been done in a much cheaper way. And you know what? It always looks cheap.
As has already been said you should count your lucky stars the panels didn't fall on somebody and hurt them.
heyskull
New Member
Hey some good replies here.
Firstly I always wanted to use the more expensive materials and yes he had spoke to other sign companies and this is were he got the idea for the foamex.
At one point he wanted to flex a banner across the whole thing but was warned away from that.
The panels do have hanging strips and rebated with joining strips.
As for how could these blow out, well after that specific night I had 3 other jobs blow down which were signs not manufactured by us and were a lot more substantial.
construction than this.
I believe it was just unlucky that his came down.
I have always tried to price my jobs more expensive than the competition and this has helped in some ways make more exclusive and well manufactured signage.
But in this economic climate their is always one customer who will not take no for an answer.
And maybe there is a lesson for us all.
NO REALLY DOES MEAN NO!!!!
As it will always be our fault when the customer cuts corners!!!
SC
Firstly I always wanted to use the more expensive materials and yes he had spoke to other sign companies and this is were he got the idea for the foamex.
At one point he wanted to flex a banner across the whole thing but was warned away from that.
The panels do have hanging strips and rebated with joining strips.
As for how could these blow out, well after that specific night I had 3 other jobs blow down which were signs not manufactured by us and were a lot more substantial.
construction than this.
I believe it was just unlucky that his came down.
I have always tried to price my jobs more expensive than the competition and this has helped in some ways make more exclusive and well manufactured signage.
But in this economic climate their is always one customer who will not take no for an answer.
And maybe there is a lesson for us all.
NO REALLY DOES MEAN NO!!!!
As it will always be our fault when the customer cuts corners!!!
SC
Joe Diaz
New Member
I wonder why he didn't go with the other sign companies who came up with the idea but instead chose the guy who tried to talk him out of it. That seems weird.
I'm not familiar with foamex, is it like sintra? basically PVC? I don't know about foamex, but there are some things to look out for, weather related, when using PVC outdoors. It expands and contracts quite a bit, and becomes brittle in the cold, and pliable in extreme heat. Getting thick enough material helps a little, 5mm might be a bit thin for that type of application, I don't know, I've never heard of it being used in lighted sign faces.
We prefer polycarb.
Show your customer this video and if he has any sense, he'll shell out the extra coin for something that can take the punishment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsls5ZPCUnE
Joe Diaz
New Member
Sintra is "rated" for outdoor use too, although not in color and less than 6mm is not recommended.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...GMeTb4V9nONuNSFIw&sig2=lN3kBpZIV8QTS5iS6QB3ZQ
and even when 6mm and larger is used you still have to keep in mind the expanding and contracting nature of the material, and also the effect cold has on it.
If someone comes in your shop looking for a price on One Rib like Chris Rock you gotta show them the door. Even Macco's cheapie paint job can't be allowed to wash off in the first rainfall. So you gotta charge accordingly, enough to leave something behind that won't bite you in the butt for the duration of your warranty, even for the cheap options.
heyskull
New Member
As of today I have changed my company policy.
If someone comes in my shop and "wants a cheaper option".
They will be told "The cheaper option is not an option if the job is to be done correctly"
They will be handed a rather large disclaimer revoking us of any responsibility due to them insisting us using lower spec materials.
If this doesn't scare them off I will just point blank refuse to do the job!
I have had an arguement with my business partners over this job but this is not going to happen again.
I understand this is the customer lowballing but I don't see why we should as it is only us that will end up out of pocket and the customer bad mouthing us.
I will be repairing the sign soon out of my pocket as I do not want any comebacks.
SC
If someone comes in my shop and "wants a cheaper option".
They will be told "The cheaper option is not an option if the job is to be done correctly"
They will be handed a rather large disclaimer revoking us of any responsibility due to them insisting us using lower spec materials.
If this doesn't scare them off I will just point blank refuse to do the job!
I have had an arguement with my business partners over this job but this is not going to happen again.
I understand this is the customer lowballing but I don't see why we should as it is only us that will end up out of pocket and the customer bad mouthing us.
I will be repairing the sign soon out of my pocket as I do not want any comebacks.
SC
Marlene
New Member
going back to this, how did you tell him no guarantee? a written contract with it clearly stated that what he wants is not the correct material for the job and that the customer assumes all responsibilty for any and all issues that can occur and make him sign off on that? just telling people doesn't work even in an e-mail.
There are good arguments on both sides here, but basically as you can see it was a bad decision all the way around. Never ever allow your customers to talk you into something that you know is not right for the job. It will ALWAYS come back to you in the end. I hope that you have all of the" no warranty" given information in writing somewhere. I will negotiate if there is room with the correct application, never with something that I know will fail.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
As I see it, many here are saying it will always come back to bite you in the end should you use inferior or wrong components to do a job...... but did any of you naysayers ever notice it's always the professional shops or people who if take a shortcut get nailed, but how many hacks do this and nothing ever goes wrong ??
I think this is why some people cave in and do something silly. They know it's wrong, but like the flies eating sh!t..... can a million of them all be wrong ??
I believe some see it as it should work, and hope it will work.... knowing full well it probably won't, but take the chance as a gamble and lose. No one ever returns to a hack to have them re-do their mistakes, cause they know they can't do it, but once someone has the taste of failure in their mouth, they certainly don't want to spend more money, so the customer continues looking for the cheapest deals, instead of doing it right. Perhaps that why two panels were missing to begin with. I did say.... perhaps.
In theory, there are always going to be methods that should work, but why try and invent the wheel ?? You can only modify it.... just don't stray too far.
I think this is why some people cave in and do something silly. They know it's wrong, but like the flies eating sh!t..... can a million of them all be wrong ??
I believe some see it as it should work, and hope it will work.... knowing full well it probably won't, but take the chance as a gamble and lose. No one ever returns to a hack to have them re-do their mistakes, cause they know they can't do it, but once someone has the taste of failure in their mouth, they certainly don't want to spend more money, so the customer continues looking for the cheapest deals, instead of doing it right. Perhaps that why two panels were missing to begin with. I did say.... perhaps.
In theory, there are always going to be methods that should work, but why try and invent the wheel ?? You can only modify it.... just don't stray too far.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Yeah, I know, that's why in my next paragraph, I pointed out the same thing you did.
I believe some see it as it should work, and hope it will work.... knowing full well it probably won't, but take the chance as a gamble and lose. No one ever returns to a hack to have them re-do their mistakes, cause they know they can't do it, but once someone has the taste of failure in their mouth, they certainly don't want to spend more money, so the customer continues looking for the cheapest deals, instead of doing it right. Perhaps that why two panels were missing to begin with. I did say.... perhaps.